CQ Transcriptswire

SPEAKERS: TOM BROKAW, HOST

GOV. JON CORZINE, D-N.J.

FMR. REP. ROB PORTMAN, R-OHIO

[*] BROKAW: First, here to talk with us about the race for the White House in the midst of this economic crisis, McCain supporter Rob Portman , who -- a former Ohio congressman; and Obama supporter Jon Corzine , the governor of New Jersey.

Welcome to both of you, obviously.

The financial representatives of 20 countries were here this weekend. They discussed the crisis, but apparently they went home without doing anything specific. At the same time, Secretary of the Treasury Hank Paulson has announced that the United States will now start investing in banks. This is changing at warp speed every day.

But I think the fundamental question for the American people is this: Is the economy going to get worse before it gets better?

CORZINE: The answer to that has to be, unfortunately, yes. When you have destruction of value that we’ve seen, $8 trillion from the high of the stock market a year ago, $4 trillion in the last 10 days, people understand that they’ve lost protection of their retirement savings and other things, and that erodes confidence.

And so they’re going to spend less and be a little less proactive about how they go out and spend scarce dollars. And that’s going to hurt the economy, slows production, has an unfortunate negative impact that I think has yet to be fully appreciated in the real economy.

We’ve seen, obviously, the decline in homes, but now I think you’re going to see rising levels of unemployment, unfortunately, and that -- that’s a real problem as we go ahead in the months ahead.

BROKAW: Congressman, do you see any light at the end of the tunnel?

PORTMAN: I do. It depends on what we do, Tom. I agree with what Jon said about the crisis in confidence as well as the financial crisis. But if we move and move quickly, I think we can pull out of this and relatively quickly. I think the issue that has been underlying so much of this is the housing market.

And one reason that Senator McCain has focused on this home resurgence plan, which says let’s get these people out from under their mortgages, people who are under water on their mortgages, this is going to be necessary for us to hit rock bottom for us to come back up.

So I hope that that $700 billion gets out, but that it gets out in the right way. And I know you talked a moment ago about equity infusions in some of these financial institutions. That may be where some of it ought to go, but the focus, John McCain is saying, and I think he’s right, is to stabilize these housing prices.

Until we do that, I think it’s going to be tough to see the economy get back on its feet.

So I think the answer is, yes, we’re going to be in for some tough times for a little while, but it can be more quickly righted, we can get this economy back on track more quickly if we deal directly with the housing crisis, as Senator McCain has talked about. CORZINE: Well, I agree with the idea that we ought to stabilize housing prices. I don’t agree with the idea that we ought to be bailing out the banks that made the loans, as I think Rob would recognize on Tuesday night when Senator McCain talked about a program to bail out the mortgages.

That sounded good. That was part of the $700 billion program to start with. On Tuesday, he came out with a program that said that we’re going to pay the full value for those mortgages, bailing out the banks that actually made those loans. I think that’s a horrible idea. The taxpayers will end up underwriting it.

What we need to do is restructure mortgages. There’s a couple of ways to do that, change the bankruptcy laws or you could actually buy mortgages at their market value today and then go in and restructure them with the individuals.

And, yes, we ought to be stabilizing housing prices. I think actually we could even buy houses, like they did back in the -- in the ‘30s under the RFC program, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. But the way that Senator McCain has done it is sort of really messed up on how it would actually impact folks.

BROKAW: Congressman, let me just...

PORTMAN: Yes.

BROKAW: You’re not getting a lot of support from some very conservative publications. If I could just share with you what The National Review had to say.

They said, “McCain’s plan is a full bailout for lenders, and it cannot do much more than the Frank-Dodd bill” -- which is another kind of housing relief bill -- “without letting ruthless borrowers and other reckless types off the hook. It is time to acknowledge that the government has gone as far as it can without creating a level of moral hazard that is unacceptable. Give Frank-Dodd” -- that’s the other housing bill -- “and the Paulson plan time to work.”

PORTMAN: Yes, well, I think they’re wrong. And they’re wrong because there are conditions attached to it so that it’s not focused on the lenders. It’s focused on the people who are under water on their mortgages, where their house value is not equal to their mortgage. And it doesn’t just affect those people, by the way, who are in this situation; it affects whole neighborhoods.

People don’t want to have foreclosures next door to them because it’s going to affect the price of their home. So, again, you know, we can, we can do a lot of different things with the 700 billion, including the guarantees and the loans that are talked about, some of which may be a good idea because it helps to be sure the taxpayers get paid back, but until we deal with the housing crisis, it’s going to be very tough for us to write this economy.

And your question was about the economy. You know, people are not as much interested in what happens on Wall Street as they are what happens in their neighborhood and on Main Street. And until we get the housing crisis contained, it’s going to be a very difficult. And I think there’s where John McCain ’s right.

And so, you know, to get an answer to your question, we can get this economy back on track and, over the long term, we need to do a lot more in terms of energy policy, tax policy, health care and so on. But we can’t do it until we get the housing crisis contained.

BROKAW: Well, let me ask you about -- The Politico is reporting this morning that Senator McCain is going to unveil a new economic plan, that he’s working on something this weekend. Among the measures being considered are tax cuts, perhaps temporary, for capital gains and dividends, the officials said.

“The market is the focus,” a McCain adviser told Politico. “You want to stop the fleeing from the market. No more bailout money is being contemplated,” the adviser said. “We’ve written a check to everyone in sight. We’re not in that game.”

Is that an accurate reflection of what’s going on in the campaign?

PORTMAN: I don’t know, but what I do know is raising capital gains right now and raising dividend taxes, as Senator Obama has proposed, is exactly the wrong prescription.

You know, Jon used to be in this Wall Street world, he may disagree with me. But, my gosh, when the market has tumbled over 20 percent in the last week, to talk about raising capital gains rates is just exactly the wrong thing. You want investors to have that confidence that Jon talked about that’s missing in the market.

And what John McCain is saying, at a minimum, let’s not raise taxes on anybody, including people who have capital gains. We want to encourage them to invest. We want to encourage them to get back into the market.

I don’t know if they’re thinking about doing even more. I do know that Senator McCain did propose this week something very interesting on 401(k)s and IRAs. People have seen their values diminish dramatically, and he’s saying they shouldn’t be forced to pull it out and pay taxes on it at age 70 1/2. That makes a lot of sense.

BROKAW: Governor?

CORZINE: Now is the time for steady leadership. We can’t have a new economic program each morning we wake up. That’s what’s been going on. Unfortunately, with regard to how the bailout package was put together and the whole structure in Washington, and it’s certainly the case with Senator McCain’s various proposals.

This mortgage program that we talked about was included in the Frank-Dodd proposal, it was included in the $700 billion, and there have been changes; but it is still the basic, we ought to help mortgages. Now we’re coming up with a new plan. What Senator Obama has talked about and is absolutely is essential is make sure that we use thoughtfully this $700 billion, including, by the way, investing in banks. Direct investment will stabilize -- they call it recapitalization -- stabilize the banks. Then he has talked about let’s make sure that we have middle class tax cuts. He’s been talking about that for months.

Ninety-five percent of the folks, about 90 percent will get tax cuts, 95 will get no increases, including on capital gains above -- below $250,000.

And then, what is maybe most important, we need a real economic stimulus. We’re in what you call a liquidity trap. You can -- you can lead a horse to water, but it doesn’t drink.

Right now, nobody has confidence to do things. We need to be putting demand into the system. That means infrastructure -- build highways, build schools, build our energy system so that we can actually create jobs, get people back to work.

BROKAW: How do you pay for that?

CORZINE: Well, if we’re going to spend $700 billion bailing out Wall Street, we ought to actually be able to come up with $50 billion -- which is what Senator Obama has talked about -- on infrastructure and helping states.

You know, people like the state of New Jersey are going to end up cutting employment, cutting our expenditures, and decreasing demand. We need to make sure that we’re driving our economy by not cutting back, just at the time we need to do it.

There is talk in Congress of another $150 billion program. I’d rather take some of the money out of the bailout plan and put it into this. The fact is is that Congress decided we ought to go from a $700 billion program to a -- what was it? -- $800 billion and $825 billion. We can afford it. We can’t afford not to have greater demand on the economy.

BROKAW: If you were in your old job as director of the OMB, would you say that’s a good idea, Congressman?

PORTMAN: Well, you know, I would say that we need to be really careful here. We have a $10 trillion debt now, and Senator Obama is very good at coming up with new ideas, ways to spend the taxpayers’ money, when, in fact, it’s the spending that is partly responsible for getting us into this situation.

And it’s very simple, you know, as we become a debtor country, the value of the dollar as been impaired and it has made everything more expensive.

The reason we’ve been sending $700 billion a year over to foreign countries to buy their oil is, in part, because the value of the dollar has gone down, in part because we’ve been irresponsible in our spending. So just more spending is not going to answer this question. This is why, again...

CORZINE: Tom -- oh, go ahead.

PORTMAN: Let me just -- let me just finish in terms of how to get the economy back on track, because that’s ultimately, you know, what people care about.

And Jon was right. He said the bailout shouldn’t just go to Wall Street. That’s what Senator McCain is talking about. Have it go to your neighborhood banks, the community banks. Have it go to people who are under water in their mortgages. Be sure you’re providing people tax relief, not raising their taxes.

And, by the way, in terms of middle-class tax relief, John McCain ’s proposal is not George Bush’s proposal. He has a doubling of the exemption, as you know, which goes squarely to the middle class.

He also has this $5,000 refundable tax credit, meaning he has more tax relief for the middle class and for lower income folks than is in the Obama plan. That’s -- that’s the math.

BROKAW: So, if I can, here...

PORTMAN: So of course you can do that.

(CROSSTALK)

PORTMAN: But let’s not raise taxes on small business and raise capital gains. It’s the wrong thing to do.

CORZINE: Every independent analysis shows that Senator Obama’s tax cuts for the middle class are about three times what is...

PORTMAN: That’s because...

CORZINE: ... being proposed by the — McCain.

PORTMAN: ... they don’t go to the root of the fundamental...

CORZINE: It is -- there are other elements that aren’t included in Senator Obama’s with regard to college support tax credits and other issues. Just working on tax policy, Senator Obama’s tax cuts for the middle class, 90 percent of Americans, is three times what Senator McCain is proposing.

And that’s the exact same policies that we followed under the Bush administration.

BROKAW: Before we, if we, if we can, I think across this country right now folks are gathered around the kitchen table trying to determine what they’re going to do in the next year -- where they’re going to have to cut, where they can save money.

CORZINE: Right. BROKAW: We know that’s going on in Main Street. Small independent banks are figuring out who they can loan money to safely. States, cities, everyone is trying to develop a set of priorities.

Here’s what happened the other night at the debate when I asked the two candidates about their priorities. Let’s listen to that for a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROKAW: Health care, energy, and entitlement reform -- Social Security and Medicare -- in what order would you put them in terms of priorities?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, R-ARIZ.: I -- I think you can work on all three at once, Tom.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, D-ILL.: We’re going to have to prioritize, just like a family has to prioritize. Now, I’ve listed the things that I think have to be at the top of the list.

Energy we have to deal with today. Health care is priority number two, because that broken health care system is bad not only for families, but it’s making our businesses less competitive. And number three, we’ve got to deal with education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROKAW: That response -- or nonresponse, depending on your point of view -- brought this from the dean of political columnists in Washington, David Broder: “ John McCain and Barack Obama have been asked twice -- once in the Mississippi debate and again on Tuesday night -- what their priorities would be. McCain flat-out refused to choose, arguing that the United States can do it all. Obama mentioned energy, health care and education but did not acknowledge that he might have to choose among them. It was a stunning rejection of reality,” according to David Broder.

Don’t you think the American public wants more candor and is prepared to hear someone say, “Look, there’s going to be no gain unless we go through some pain,” Congressman?

PORTMAN: Well, first of all, John McCain was answering a question which was about health care and energy and entitlements, and absolutely we need to move forward on all three of those. He...

BROKAW: At once?

PORTMAN: Well, of course. I mean, and you can. He’s talked about the commission which -- Blue Ribbon Commission, which is necessary to deal with the Medicare problem. He talked about that later. Of course we need to move forward aggressively on energy independence, including starting to drill right now.

Of course we need to move forward on being sure that the health care costs are contained. What he did not say in response to that answer, because you didn’t ask him, was that he believes we do need to make choices. And he said it later in the debate when he talked about a spending freeze.

This is a tough approach. Again, having been in the position of looking at this budget, John McCain is saying let’s put everything under the microscope and not do it with a scalpel, but do it with a hatchet, a scalpel and, in some cases, you need to eliminate programs altogether.

And so he is -- you know, he is giving people straight talk on that. This is tough medicine. We haven’t done that in the Bush administration, we didn’t do it in the Clinton administration. It’s time to tighten our belt at the federal government level just as you said homeowners are doing it, families are doing it all around America.

BROKAW: Governor Corzine?

CORZINE: States are doing it. I assure you we have.

PORTMAN: And states are doing...

CORZINE: We actually cut our budget...

PORTMAN: Because they have a balanced budget requirement.

CORZINE: Yes, we have a requirement.

Senator Obama’s been very clear...

PORTMAN: But that’s what we should do at the federal level.

CORZINE: ... about that you may have to slow down some of the things that you want to bring in. I heard that in the debate before you ask the question, and that’s realistic. We may not be able to do everything we want to do on education as fast as we want to do.

But the first two that Senator Obama talked about, on energy and health care, if we don’t fix those, our problems and imbalances in this economy get worse.

We want to create jobs right now. Greening jobs, converting into alternative energies and conservation, are actually going to create jobs which actually increase revenues if we have more people working.

Health care, we have a universal health care system right now. It’s in our emergency rooms. People go there; they get care; and we, at the state level, have to pay it through reimbursement for the charity care that we all have. That can’t keep going on. It’s broken.

And so we have to deal with that now. Senator Obama has a much better, on almost every evaluative merit basis, health care system that will get people fully insured over the next -- we can’t stop on that. Otherwise, we’re going to end up going broke in different places. We’re just changing who’s going broke. PORTMAN: Tom...

BROKAW: Isn’t there going to be a new reality about health care in the next year or so?

Because as corporations look to cut back, the primary cost that they have outside of doing business is in health care. So isn’t that monster...

PORTMAN: Absolutely.

BROKAW: ... going to grow even more, Congressman Portman?

PORTMAN: Yes, absolutely. Yes.

BROKAW: And you’re probably going to have to retool your plan as well.

PORTMAN: Well, the McCain plan is very targeted toward reducing the costs of the health care system -- the cost to families, the cost to companies, the cost to our economy -- and the Obama plan is not.

With all due respect, they are very different plans. But the independent evaluations that I’ve seen, including one last week, shows that the McCain plan will cover about the same number of uninsured -- in fact, this particular analysis said a few million more people -- but it will reduce costs. That’s the key.

If you just turn a government plan into the Obama approach, which is to say, “We’re going to have more government involvement,” you’re not going to get at the cost issue.

And what the McCain plan does is it creates competition that will reduce costs, as well as providing $5,000 track -- tax credit to everybody who has health care, including those who have employer coverage, and to folks who are uninsured, to cover more people.

So if you’re going to get at the economic issue in health care, which is the, which is the increased cost, the McCain plan actually works better.

BROKAW: I have a feeling...

CORZINE: It will, it will give a $5,000 tax credit. But for a family of four, most health insurance policies are about $12,000 a year. The second thing is...

PORTMAN: It’s $5,800.

CORZINE: ... it’s going to put, it’s going to put taxes on the health care benefits that people receive from the corporations. Every estimate I’ve seen is 20 million people would be uninsured under the McCain plan.

What we are doing in the Obama proposal is building on what is working in the system, making sure that children’s health insurance is provided to every child. Then using the systems that we already have, the private health care system, to build on it to get everybody insured.

And if there’s fallout, then offer the same thing that you and I have, when you were a congressman and I was a senator, available to the people that are left out of the system.

I think that works. I think it is affordable, and it is unaffordable to continue doing what we’re doing now because what we’re doing is going into the emergency room. It’s costing a fortune. It’s the worst health care in the world.

BROKAW: Let me -- let me recommend that our viewers go to the respective Web sites of these two campaigns...

PORTMAN: Yes.

BROKAW: ... to get a real picture of what their health care plans are.

CORZINE: Sure.

BROKAW: Can we turn, now, to the tone of the campaign, which has gotten a lot of attention in the last 48 hours or so?

There was an exchange, very spirited exchange in Minnesota over the weekend. We want to share, first of all, one of the ads that Senator McCain has been adding, which might have created -- helped create a climate that existed in Minnesota.

So let’s take a look at the ad first, and then what was going on when the senator had a town hall meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Obama’s blind ambition. When convenient, he worked with terrorist Bill Ayers. When discovered, he lied. Obama: blind ambition, bad judgment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUDIENCE MEMBER: We’re scared. We’re scared of an Obama presidency. And I’ll -- I’ll tell you why. I’m concerned about, you know, someone that cohorts with domestic terrorists such as Ayers.

(APPLAUSE)

MCCAIN: Thank you. First of all, I want to be president of the United States, and obviously, I do not want Senator Obama to be.

But I have to tell you, I have to tell you he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared as president of the United States. Now, I just...

(BOOING)

Now I just...

(BOOING)

MCCAIN: Now, look. I, if I didn’t think I wouldn’t be one heck of a lot better president, I wouldn’t be running, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I’ve got to ask you a question. I do not believe in -- I can’t trust Obama.

MCCAIN: I got it.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I have read about him, and he’s not -- he’s not -- , he’s a -- he’s an Arab. He’s not...

(LAUGHTER)

MCCAIN: No.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: He’s not?

SEN. MCCAIN: No, ma’am.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: No?

MCCAIN: No, ma’am. No, ma’am. He’s a -- he’s a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on -- on fundamental issues. And that’s what this campaign is all about. He’s not. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROKAW: And the reaction of Senator Obama to the defense that he received from Senator McCain was this, in Philadelphia, on Saturday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I want to acknowledge that Senator McCain tried to tone down the rhetoric in his town hall meeting yesterday.

(APPLAUSE)

I appreciated his reminder that we can disagree while still being respectful of each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROKAW: Congressman Portman, has this gone too far, in terms of the attacks on Senator Obama and his association with Bill Ayers in Chicago? Governor Palin has gone so far as to say he’s palling around with a terrorist. Is that a really fair characterization, in your judgment?

PORTMAN: Well, I think what they’ve focused on is two things. One is Senator Obama’s judgment, and second is his truthfulness. I saw yesterday there had been nine different explanations about his relationship with Bill Ayers and when he met him and who he thought he was, and so on.

And so that’s the issue, is his judgment and his truthfulness. In terms of this campaign, as we get toward, you know, the last few weeks here, it’s heated up, there’s no question, on both sides.

And Senator Obama’s rallies are, you know -- he also inspires the crowd, and they can get pretty rowdy as well.

Having viewed a few of those rallies, and been at some of the McCain rallies, they are inspiring people, you know, to support their policies and their approach. That’s what rallies are all about. They cannot control every single individual in that, in that rally and what that person might say.

But no, I think if you look at these campaigns...

BROKAW: You’re comfortable with the ads. You don’t think they’re too negative.

PORTMAN: Well, you know, you look at the negative ads. Senator Obama has run more negative ads in this campaign than any presidential campaign in history -- easily -- and far more negative ads than Senator McCain has run, and including ads that directly take on Senator McCain on things like stem cell research in a dishonest way, Social Security, immigration, that are, you know, by independent fact checkers have been found to be absolutely false.

So, Tom, it’s going on, on the ads, the TV wars on the Obama side.

BROKAW: And it turns out that, on the other side, there are some real issues as well.

Congressman John Lewis got a lot of attention over the weekend -- he’s the Atlanta congressman who’s a veteran of the Civil Rights movement -- when he said, “Senator McCain and Governor Palin are sowing the seeds of hatred and division. During another period in the not too distant past, there was a governor of the state of Alabama named George Wallace who also became a presidential candidate.”

George Wallace never threw a bomb. He never fired a gun, but he created the climate and the conditions that encouraged vicious attacks against innocent Americans who were simply trying to exercise their constitutional rights. They are playing a very dangerous game that disregards the value of the political process and cheapens our entire democracy.” Not surprisingly, there was a quick response from the McCain campaign saying, “Congressman John Lewis ’ comments represent a character attack against Governor Sarah Palin and me that is shocking and beyond the pale. The notion that legitimate criticism of Senator Obama’s record and positions could be compared to Governor George Wallace, his segregationist policies and the violence he provoked is unacceptable and has no place in this campaign.”

And to that, Senator Obama said he “does not believe that John McCain or his policy criticism is in any way comparable to George Wallace or his segregationist policies. But John Lewis ,” he says, “was right to condemn some of the hateful rhetoric that John McCain himself has personally rebuked just last night,” and so on and so on.

Let me ask you both a simple question. In Minnesota, the senator, Norm Coleman , the Republican candidate for re-election, has stopped all negative advertising.

Would that be a good idea for the presidential campaigns in the midst of this financial crisis when the country is so focused on their future?

CORZINE: Tom, I -- first of all, I think that actually is a good idea. I think the first ad you showed, which has lie on it printed several times, is inflammatory by anybody’s stretch of imagination.

I don’t -- you know, I’m not going to say everybody’s innocent. I, you know -- I think John Lewis is one of the most remarkable men in American history. But, you know, I would not want to include this in the debate today since...

BROKAW: You think he was inappropriate in comparing him to George Wallace?

CORZINE: Well, I just think it -- I just think it is -- it is playing into what I think is the strategy that is going on here about this whole Ayers issue and everything else.

We want to turn the page on economics, because it’s not working in the debate for Senator McCain, and get on to something else. It’s a distraction away from the most fundamental debate that we ought to be having in this country is how are we going to put people to work?

How are we going to keep people in their homes? How are we going to raise the income of the middle class in this country?

These are the things that people are worried about in their lives, and this is a complete distraction. And in -- by the way, the facts, I mean, I don’t -- you know, if somebody sits on a board where somebody else is on the board, by the way, it’s Walter Annenberg’s board on school reform, and he picked Mr. Ayers, not Barack Obama . They happen to be on the same board.

So that’s a -- that’s the classic guilt by association. It’s really fueled...

BROKAW: Well, what about, what about John Lewis and guilt by association linking him with George Wallace?

CORZINE: Yes, I -- as I said, I would prefer that we stay talking about what we talked about in the first part of this discussion today. We’ve got people that have seen the cost per person go up -- of the loss of their equity values almost $30,000.

I mean, this is a huge, huge problem that ought to be the centerpiece, not something that we’ve turned the page on and we’re going to walk away from. We need steady, thoughtful, careful analysis and presentation of policy so we can make a decision who’ll be the best president.

BROKAW: Final word from Congressman Portman.

PORTMAN: Well, no, I agree with Jon on the fact that the economy’s the key issue, and I totally disagree with him that anybody’s turning the page in the McCain campaign.

You saw this in the debate the other night, Tom, where you were there. Senator McCain focused entirely on struggling families in America and the needs they have in terms of health care, paying their mortgages, staying in their homes at all, their education costs for their kids and keeping a job.

And this is what John McCain ’s going to keep talking about. He’s focused on the economy, how to get us out of the ditch that we’re in. And he’s got new innovative policies to do it, and it includes not taxing small businesses, which are the generators of new jobs in his economy, they’re going to help us get out of that ditch.

But helping them includes not raising taxes on capital gains, on dividend income as the market’s going down. It includes pro-growth, pro-jobs policies that people are hungering for. And that’s going to be his focus, and that is his intention.

BROKAW: Final question. You’ve been the go-to guy as a stand-in in debate preparation in a number of debates. You were the stand-in for John McCain as Obama. But in a Senate race in New York you were the stand-in as Hillary Clinton.

(LAUGHTER)

Which was more difficult to characterize, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama ?

PORTMAN: You know, I think it’s hard to say. Playing Barack Obama ’s been very interesting, though. He’s a talented politician, you know, there’s no question about it. I also say he’s -- he’s more predictable than some other people who I’ve had the opportunity to train.

You know, I played Joe Lieberman, also, who is more unpredictable and more authentic, I would say, in terms of his policy positions. So what I’ve learned, Tom, is a lot about the economic positions of Senator Obama, as well as John McCain . And I come out of it more convinced than ever that to really get this economy moving again and to help people that John McCain ’s got the better approach.

Sometimes, you know, it’s tough toward the end of a campaign to focus, as Jon has said, as we should be focused on how we’re going to change and help -- help people in their daily lives.

People ought to look. You said go to the Web sites. Look at the tax policies. Look at the health care policies. Look at the energy independence policies. Look at how John McCain is focused on trying to get the economy back on track and make your decision on that basis.

BROKAW: Congressman Portman, Governor Corzine, thank you very much for being with us.

CORZINE: Good to be here.

BROKAW: Twenty-three days until the election. It’s going to be a rapid countdown.

END

.ETX

Oct 12, 2008 14:29 ET .EOF

Source: CQ Transcriptions

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