CQ TODAY ONLINE NEWS
Aug. 13, 2008 – 2:22 p.m.
Efforts to Promote Clinton at Convention Heat Up
By Andrew Satter, CQ Staff
To say that some Hillary Rodham Clinton supporters are still angry at Barack Obama and the Democratic party would be putting it mildly.
Ever since the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee hearing in early June where Obama essentially secured the nomination, incensed Clinton supporters have mobilized online with the goal of getting the former First Lady nominated at the Democratic party convention in Denver.
The Internet is awash with pro-Clinton groups such as PUMA - Party Unity My Ass (or, alternatively, People United Means Action) - and Just Say No Deal, that say the nomination was stolen from Hillary Clinton. On blogs, forums, social networking sites and YouTube, pro-Clinton activists vent their frustration at the Democratic party.
CQ Politics video: Learn more about the PUMA movement’s online tactics
Two recent CQ Politics stories examining Clinton’s role at the Democratic party convention in Denver received hundreds of comments, many vehemently pro-Clinton.
Anything short of Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee, and they say they will vote for John McCain in November.
“What we want, if we still can, is to save the Democratic party from itself,” PUMA co-founder Will Bower said in an interview with CQ Politics. “We feel there’s been a coup, that the DNC no longer represents the will of the Democratic party.”
While unlikely, there is a path to a Clinton nomination. First, 300 delegates need to sign a petition to put Clinton on the ballot. Bower says they still need another 100-150 signatures.
Then, Clinton herself would have to sign the petition. While unwavering in her support for Obama since the primary ended, she did hint at a recent fundraiser that she wouldn’t rule out submitting her name for nomination: “I happen to believe that we will come out stronger if people feel that their voices were heard and their views respected. I think that is a very big part of how we actually come out unified,” Clinton said to a small group of cheering supporters.
PUMAs think she could get enough delegates during floor votes to actually overtake Obama and win the nomination.
“It’s very, very possible (Clinton could get nominated). She has many votes,” said Elaine Kamarck, a member of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee and a superdelegate who endorsed Clinton during the primary. She has since switched her support to Barack Obama . She teaches at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government.
But, Kamarck, said, it’s impossible to speculate on whether it will happen because of all the inside negotiations going on between the Obama campaign and Clinton.
“I have to assume from past convention experience that it’s something the Obama campaign and Hillary Clinton’s people are talking about quite extensively. This is now in the realm of inside baseball. I just don’t know.”
Efforts to Promote Clinton at Convention Heat Up
“We are working together to make sure the fall campaign and the convention are a success,” said Nick Shapiro, Obama campaign spokesman. “At the Democratic Convention, we will ensure that the voices of everyone who participated in this historic process are respected and our party will be fully unified heading into the November election.”
Donald Fowler, a former DNC chairman, a member of the Rules and Bylaws Committee and an early supporter of Clinton who has since switched to Obama, thinks it would be a mistake to offer Clinton’s name at the convention. He says that to do so would present to the American people the appearance of a divided party, which could be devastating leading into the general election.
“It would be the wrong thing to do by anybody’s definition,” Fowler said. “I think Senator Clinton should be honored, but I think that it would absolutely be the wrong thing to do and I think she should discourage her supporters from doing that.”
But Clinton’s supporters argue that there is precedence in having the second and even third and fourth place finishers’ names on the ballot. But in most of those cases, the challengers were so far behind the nominee in delegates that they posed no threat.
What the Obama campaign is hoping to avoid is a floor fight. At the 1980 convention, Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy - who had won a number of primaries - challenged incumbent president Jimmy Carter. Carter held on, but the sight of Democrats battling each other started Carter’s campaign off on a sour note and things went downhill from there. Carter lost the general election in a landslide to Ronald Reagan.
PUMA activists have been working behind the scenes to get delegates to sign the nominating petition. They also have been contacting superdelegates in an attempt to convince them to switch their allegiance to Clinton.
One such e-mail message, obtained by ‘The Atlantic’ blogger Marc Ambinder, reiterates the Clinton campaign argument that she is the more electable Democrat.
“Dear Super Delegate,” the letter begins, “I am a Democratic voter and member of Puma PAC . . . We represent the more than 18 million American voters who supported Sen. Clinton and who reject the selection of Barack Obama as the Democratic nominee.
“ Barack Obama is simply the weaker of the two final candidates for nomination. He is losing ground to Sen. McCain every day. Millions of Democrats vow not to vote for him in November because of his inexperience and unreadiness to lead.
“Only Sen. Clinton can win back the White House for our Party in November.
“PLEASE do your job and support Sen. Clinton for nomination in Denver.”
The great unknown is whether some Clinton supporters will make good on their threat to vote for John McCain if their candidate isn’t the nominee.
It is difficult to know just how many feel that way. Will Bower estimates there are millions of PUMAs - he includes any Clinton supporter who will vote against Obama as a PUMA, whether they have heard of the group or not - citing a late June CNN/Opinion Research poll showing only 54 percent of Clinton backers will support Obama.
Efforts to Promote Clinton at Convention Heat Up
A Pew Research Center poll released today found that 72% of Hillary Clinton voters now support Obama. The pollsters add: “Among the 28% who say they will not support Obama on November 4th, 18% say they will support McCain, 7% don’t yet know who they will support and 3% plan to back another candidate. “
“Even if we are only two million people, and I’m confident we’re more than that, that’s enough to tip an election,” Bower says.
Fowler, the former DNC chairman, says he isn’t convinced of the PUMA movement’s influence.
Fowler said that after Clinton formally withdrew from the race, he sent out a letter to her supporters calling for unity.
“I got 1,000 or more hostile, negative emails from that, most of them from PUMA, and I got the distinct, distinct impression that this was a small group of people just multiplying emails.
“This is a noisy, small crowd.”
Marie Horrigan contributed to this report.
Comments
If Maureen Dowd's incisive commentary can't stop this insanity I guess we are stuck with it. Fortunately the convention Aug 25-28, is it, will also feature Michelle Obama, Claire McCaskill, Kathleen Sibelius, Mark Warner and whoever turns out to the VP running mate. Not sure when Clyburn is speaking. Evidently Obama's turn is the 28th ... by then the Clintons should be done, yes? With their delusions of granduer, power brokering, and faux everything. As in Horrors, little shop of.
I remain unconvinced that the convention roll call is a good idea. My areas of concern are as follows: .......... (1) While I grant that there is certainly historical precedent to such a move, Hillary Clinton has formally endorsed the Obama campaign. I am not aware of a historical precedent for a roll call vote after such an endorsement has been made. .......... (2) I didn't realize that so many signatures were still missing. 100-150 signatures missing is one-half to one-third the total number required for the presentation of the petition. There is still time to obtain the remaining signatures, but the convention is coming up soon and this seems like it is running "down to the wire," so to speak. I believe that such a petition would need overwhelming support in order to succeed, and the missing signatures makes it seem as if such support is not immediately apparent. .......... (3) While Hillary Clinton has not opposed the signature drive, neither has she expressly stated that she will participate. Ultimately the petition will not go anywhere if the candidate will not sign. .......... (4) If the vote were to take place, and Hillary Clinton were to become the nominee as a result, it would certainly infuriate those persons who strongly support Senator Obama. The belief that Senator Obama cannot win without the support of Clinton voters has been expressed many times. I believe that the converse is also true: I don't believe that Hillary Clinton would be able to win without the support of Obama voters. .......... (5) If the petition is brought to the floor, it will be devisive (the "sour note" comment from earlier sounds just about right to me) regardless of the outcome. No matter what happens, someone will be angry about losing the petition. .......... (6) While the primaries were still going on, many undecided super delegates stated that they were extremely reluctant to "overturn the election results," or vote in the opposite direction from their local community. While I can see some leeway in areas where the vote was extremely close, it would bother me if a super delegate were to vote in a way that was diametrically opposed to their local election, particularly in areas with strong wins, regardless of which candidate actually won. Jen in Texas.
PLLLLeeassse get rid of that horrible woman. She is a disgrace to the American political system. She ran a racist, sexist, disingenuous, dishonest campaign and she still LOST !!!!!! Those rabid women who are backing her still ought to get a life outside politics......
Corrections to your article: PUMAs are angry at Barack Obama: This may be somewhat true, but PUMAs are much more angry at the DNC for dragging Obama, staggering, over the Superdelegate finish line, for the appalling violation of democratic principles at the RBC meeting in May, for their mishandling of the MI/FL primaries in the first place (and esp. that 3 other states violated the DNC's primary rules but were not 'punished'), for their deafening silence in the face of rampant sexism from the media and the party itself, and for throwing its working-class base under the bus, not to mention several other base demographics because they'll 'all come back' in November, having no other place to go. Throw in disproportional delegate representation for red state caucuses, disproportional delegate distribution according to their wacky congressional district rules and Nancy Pelosi's arm-twisting stampede of last-minute Superdelegates and really, Obama's almost inconsequential. Voting for McCain: this is a lie. I assume it was for dramatic effect. Some PUMAs will vote McCain as protest vote, but most are voting third party, writing in Clinton, or not voting top of the ticket. Pretty much all, though, are checking out downticket races very carefully, more carefully in a lot of cases in the past. Because this campaign season is proof that a (D) beside one's name has little meaning. Lifetime poll, aka 'cherrypicking': this poll was of 500 female voters and has a MOE of 4pts. Polls from February on in the primaries have shown that 20-25% of Clinton supporters would switch to McCain if Obama was the nominee. What Lifetime didn't poll on, and which is included in the 46% of Clinton supporters from the earlier poll you cite, is the percentage of voters who just won't vote for Obama but are not switching to McCain. A recent CBS poll showed 19% of Clinton supporters moving to McCain, and a whopping 24% still listed as 'Undecided' (an extraordinary number at this late date). The CBS poll had no category for 'Neither'. So all in all, the CBS poll, which was favorable to Obama overall by 6 pts, has 43% of Clinton supporters not moving to Obama, down only 3 pts from June. Gallup has averaged only a 3 pt lead for Obama since the end of the primaries in daily tracking, and Rasmussen has had McCain up by 1 or tied multiple times in the same period. Gallup has shown multiple tied days as well. There are likely other blatant inaccuracies in your report, these are just the 3 I spotted right off. I know the convention for accuracy in reporting is long gone, but it is too much to hope for an occasional glimmer from those who should know better?
These people are nothing more than sore losers. I'm a middle-aged white woman who has supported Barack Obama since early this year. And frankly, I find the behavior of these women embarrassing to all women--particularly how they behaved at the DNC meeting--and devisive. They're helping McCain by their actions now. The media they portray as so horribly mistreating Clinton, and I believe the candidates themselves, have all admitted that Clinton and Obama differed little on the issues. So why can't they get behind the candidate who won the nomination? Sore losers and they'll regret these actions if McCain is elected.
how unAmerican she lost - she claimed states she did not win - she used Republican tactics. She use low life speeches -- she lost me long ago this reason--
Loved the article and hope that You will all here educate yourself with the democratic process by viewing the three YouTube videos below. Thank YOU all as Americans using your rights of free speech intelligently (those not, well we know who you represent): You guys have to watch these informative video about the history and fact of the Democrat convention. It's a very good production. And there are 3 parts. Please help spread these video. Democrats 08: Connect-the-Dots Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lPCunsrI1Q Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Khsg8iKjU Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpz8AJk8TM
Why is the DNC, BO and his supporters so frightened by her name in nomination at Denver? This has been standard procedure in past elections. Why so insecure and threatened? Why did the Democratic party stop practicing Democracy?
If losing an election is what it takes to show the DNC that we are not going to get in line behind a selected candidate, then so be it.
I'm sick of being told to "sit down and shut up" ! ESPECIALLY by commenters claiming to be "middle-aged white woman, embarrassed" by those of us with enough courage to step up and DO WHAT IS NECESSARY to preserve the democracy set up by our forefathers. Just because you're a middle-aged white woman who's deceived enough to believe the cr*p being generated by the obama political machine, does not give you any political clout. You're just another middle-aged white woman with a personal opinion...so DON"T BOTHER BEING EMBARRASSED about anyone. Last I looked, America is still a FREE country. Until that changes, we are just as entitled to voice our opinions as you are entitled to voice yours. To bad for you that you are in the minority.
tgo.............................There are a lot of men behind this movement. Pleae get informed before posting your nonsense.
I am so tired of being told to shut up sit down get in line and all the other stuff his magiasty dowles out. I can hardly breath under this bus and hope people see pretty soon what danger our country is in.Now Hillary cannt say keynote speaker on the ANN OF WOMAN SUFFERAGE??He just threw all women under with that . He is no uniter except for the chosen ones that will drink his kool aid.Going to text his vp choice. How second grade is that? Transparency?? Ya right . Cannt believe a word he says and he wants the post of pres.I will never vote Obama EVER
Dear Stillstandingforfreedom, come on now, you really don't think this stunt is actually going to "preserve the democracy." You make me laugh. I think it would be better for all of us if you just "SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP," because you mindless babbling is literally going to kill us. "Middle-aged white woman," why don't you think of the future of the women that will come after you? Pissed off over your spend life so others have to pay? I think you got your facts wrong, You are the minority...it stinks being in the minority doesn't it...COUNTRY FIRST.
Sure would like for some hopeandchange koolaid drinker to try to tell me to sit down and shut up. Ain't gonna happen sweetie! Hillary in 2008 and 2012
Dear Valhalla, are you really saying that RED STATE caucuses helped Senator Obama win? Then, maybe we have a chance to close KY in November...give me a break. Yeah Pelosi doesn't like the Clinton's one bit. You know why? Because she holds BILL CLINTON personally responsible for losing the majority in Washington over a little thing called the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Just think where the country would be if we still had those precious sixty votes? Also, for all your gallop poll prattle, you do know that Bush never carried more than a 4 point lead over Kerry...and BTW, I really don't care how angry you PUMAs gals are...it doesn't justify being traitors...COUNTRY FIRST.
Maybe there is some truth to the Enquirer Barack Obama scandals after all. They were not lying about John Edwards as everyone claimed. Look a little deeper you never know what you might find.
I won't even watch while Michelle is speaking! Is this normal to have the spouse who is a political unknown speak. Give us all a break and say you're sick. This democrat will never vote for Obama and no, I won't get in line, I won't get over it, and he will never get my respect. I won't listen to him and I will vote against any official who endorses him. He is a crook from the Chicago Combine and if elected, will destroy freedom in the US.
My bona fides: long time Clinton supporter. donated to the campaign waaaaay beyond what I could afford. collected signatures and worked phone banks. have admired Hillary Clinton as a passing aquaintance since 1991. I bow to no one in personal devestation at the outcome of the nomination process. However, the outcome is legitimate and as fair as any electoral process ever produces (hard to have an unflawed election). The Obama train has left the station. To those who won't get aboard I can only say two words: Supreme Court. I ask you, is nursing a sense of grievance really, really, really more important than choice? Can you really sacrifice that right for your daughters and granddaughters and their granddaughters?
Lida wrote: "Pelosi doesn't like the Clinton's one bit. You know why? Because she holds BILL CLINTON personally responsible for losing the majority in Washington over a little thing called the Monica Lewinsky scandal. " Yeah, that's a nice argument - only if it was true. The Democrats lost their majority in 1994 while the Lewinsky scandal was in 1998. By the way, Democrats gained seats during the so-called scandal.
Andrew, Obama has not secured the nomination. Super delegates are going to be the ones decide this election and super delegates do not vote until the convention. Why do you think DNC party officials and Senator Obama are threatening and strong arming the Clinton super delegates to not sign the petition to have Hillary's name in nomination. I also recommend you view the video's release on August 9th by the Sam J Ervin Jr, former chairman of Watergate commission, library and museum in Morgantown NC. Part 2 & 3 may shed additional light on the issue of super delegates and Part 3 why Obama is not the presumptive nominee. Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lPCunsrI1Q Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Khsg8iKjU :Superdelegates can not count until convention Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpz8AJk8TM *VERY IMPORTANT PART: Why Obama is not the nominee
Lida...yes country first...not party..and if you truly believed that, how could you possibly vote for a man who has never held a job longer than 18 months? Never has been vetted, and has more secrets than John Edwards? And as far as Nancy Pelosi is concerned, she can't remember that far back, so don't give me that bs!! Besides, what does that have to do with Hillary? Can you honestly think that we are all as gullible and as you and your kool-aid induced fellow obomats? Just give me one example of why you would take someone with little experience, no foreign policy and absolutly no character, over someone with all those qualities? What has BO done for this country to suggest that he's the one? a lot of words (other peoples words) strung together with little or no thought to solutions. Do you know where this man stands ON ANYTHING? Yes...country, before party..
Hey bigherman..."SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP," because you are helping to destroy Hillary's future political career...people will not forget this...How do you think she's going to get nominated in future?...with just the votes from you gals?...what a joke...Very short-sighted ladies...you don't see the consequences of your stunt, you just want to savor revenge...oh, it's going to be bitter sweet...This is surely going to make Hillary and Bill the personas non gratas on capital hill...COUNTRY FIRST.
COUNTRY FIRST ... that's exactly the reason we will not support Senator Obama in this election cycle!!! We believe Senator Obama will not be beneficial for the United States. He gets it all wrong. He was wrong about the conflict between Georgia and Russia just recently!!! He is wrong about the surge not working in Iraq!!! He is not someone we want to be CIC of these United States. Definitely COUNTRY FIRST--- WE DON'T SWALLOW THE PARTY LINE!!!!
Read the memos that were released. Hillary lost because of her own internal problems and her unwillingness to make decisions. Obama won the electoral votes and that is what the race was about, not stonger candidates or popularity, but who wins the most electoral votes. Stop blaming everyone and look at the Hillary campaign: in-house fighting and back stabbing, lack of decision making, etc., etc. The rest of the country is not going to roll over just because of a few disgruntal women. Most American women have a real thought process and can see through this madness. Hillary loss Obama won. Simple! Vote for McCain if you like, but don't yell and scream when you get what you vote for! This convention belongs to Obama and the future of the Democratic party. Face reality, Hillary lost legitimately and thats a fact!
Hopefully the super delegates will realize that Hillary is the only candidate capable of beating McCain. The Democrats have lost the last 2 Presidential elections because they picked candidates with serious flaws. Now they are about to repeat that error. Why can't they learn?
Let me start out by saying this. I am an Obama supporter. I also know that Hillary ran as much of an historic campaign as Obama did. That being said, as a believer in democracy, I have no problem with Hillary's name being in a role call. I know that did not sound like it with the las article about Hillary supporters. However, they need to get one thing straight. She will NOT be the nominee. If by some bizarre and unlikely chance she does become the nominee, I will vote for her. I, unlike many PUMA's, have no ill feelings toward Hillary like they have towards Obama. I would also like to point out that if you look at Hillary's platform and Obama's platform, they are not that different. They are virtually identical. With that in mind, I really don't see how any of you PUMA's can vote for John McCain, who is the complete opposite of Hillary. Even if her name is placed in the slot and she does not get the nomination, will that satisfy you? Or are you still going to vote for McCain because of some childish grievance? Let me put it this way. A vote for McCain is a vote for continuation of the Bush policies. When your kids get shipped to Iraq, when your job goes overseas, when water becomes unsafe to drink because of deregulation, when foreclosures go even higher because of lax regulation of the banking industry, when healthcare costs go to Jupiter, and gas exceeds $9 a gallon because of no oversight of the energy sector, you can thank yourselves because you voted for McCain. By the way, you can also thank yourselves for not being able to afford to send your kids to college when you vote for McCain. I am an Arizona resident and most people here do not like him. I am also a 22 year old university student. The cost of school is expensive and under republicans, the cost has only gone up.
I am totally for Hillary Clinton, but I don't see any chance of her getting the nomination. She did NOT run a racist campaign, that is just bull. It's so easy to cry "racist" in society. Having said that, I still like Barack Obama, though I think his refusal to accept Hillary as his running mate has soured me on him quite a bit. nonetheless, I will vote for him. I am most certainly not voting for McInsane.
lotts1948, Oh, you're swallowing the party line alright, but it's from the REPUBLICAN PARTY. Speaking of the surge, we wouldn't have needed a surge if we didn't enter a war that was forced upon us thru LIES. Another thing about that surge is, that it was and still is, accompanied by MILLIONS OF US $$$ hitting the streets of Iraq. The Bush administration, along with your man McCain, is buy allegiances there. Can you tell me what happens when our TAX PAYING dollars dry up? So, much for the surge working...try doing some research, before you talk to me about your crackerjack candidate...Re: Georgia, McCain cannot even pronounce the president's name...It's Saakashvili...got that! Stop voting for presidents without brains...COUNTRY FIRST.
BMW60, thank you for your intelligent input. I post below a revised url address for the Connect the Dots series as the one in your post did not go through. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Connect+the+Dots+Part+1&search_type=&aq=f I never fail to be amazed at the way in which that tiny minority of posters who oppose free speech and the sharing of ideas seem to ALL get the facts confused as well. Good reason to allow open sharing of ideas--facts become more available to us, and thus we are able to make more credible argument.
Thomas Freeman, Hillary is not Senator Obama's running mate, because of one reason, and his name is BILL CLINTON...Bill Clinton does not want to be vetted...You can blame Senator Obama all you want, and I was hoping that she would be the VP, to put an end to this really childish and rather reckless divide, but Bill Clinton is an obstacle that cannot be over looked...COUNTRY FIRST..
As the joke goes: What's the only way Obama could lose the election? Marry Bill Clinton.
Now Fleur du Mal knows where it's at...COUNTRY FIRST.
Lida, I came on this new site because I thought I would not be reading your rantings. Don't you ever give up. Do you sit by your computer all day, yelling and yelling, You must be just a delight at home, having to listen to you. Reading what you write is bad enough but stop with the insults. People have a right to their own votes. Yes, a lot of us like Hillary. That is our right. For whatever reason. Maybe no reason at all. We have the right as AMERICANS to pick our leader and each and every one of us may not like Obama. So what. I dislike him very much. I don't belive he is America First and I believe he is still a Muslim. So now what are you going to yell about. That is my firm belief. The powers that be in the Mid East like him. They know a Muslim when they see one. When would anyone from the Mid East Like an American President. You tell me that. So you go on Squawking and we can tune you out.
First Hail Mary Hillary is a football reference not a bizarre form of worship. The DNC which is now the ObamaNC has pushed BO from the start, they have refused to do anything about the "alleged sexism" in the campaign, in fact they incited it. They tried to strong arm Hillary in to deferring to the chosen one every step of the way. Apparently they feel it is appropriate for women to defer to unqualified male candidates. I don't want any part of this party. I am voting for McCain and I am happier with that vote than I was with my vote for Kerry. Bo had the chance to show leadership in women's issues by standing up immediately to the sexism this primary season. But he didn't notice the problem or the opportunity he was given to respond. I am not interested in his cheap words on the subject only his non action. Kennedys name was placed in nomination and he had far less delegates. If BO is the clear leader than he has nothing to fear form a real convention vs a coronation. And how many times do I have to tell the Dems I am not sending them money? They just keep calling. Get this I am voting for McCain and not sending any money to any Dem this year. Go call your "new" Dems for money.
What nomination has Obama won? NO ONE has won any nomination yet. For those of you who obviously have no idea how the process works. Neither Obama or Senator Clinton had enough pledged delegates to win the nomination. Superdelegates ,whether they endorsed either candidate doesn't mean anything since there has been no vote yet for the nomination and that will NOT occur until the convention. Additionally, superdelegates can change theri mind 100 times if they want between now and the convention. So no one really knows who is going to change their minds on who they vote for. Finalaly, Senator Clinton only SUSPENDED her nomination. She kept her pledged delegates and has MANY superdelegates that support her. Just because they aren't publicly saying it, doesn't mean it is not happening. YES, she has a great chance of winning the nomination, no matter how much Obama's campaign tries to spin ther results, his endorsements don't mean squat until everyone votes at the Denver convention. So, please know your facts BEFORE you make comments on something you don't know anything about. Thank you!
These are people who claim Obama was born in Indonesia or perhaps Canada, is a citizen of Kenya, forged his birth certificate, never registered at the draft board, and murdered various Chicagoans. That's just to start. Why on earth waste your beautiful mind with PUMAs?
I and so many others want Hilary to run.....We need her to be President....she has a brain and only has the interest of our wonderful nation...the news did not cover her like they did the men...and I truly believe she is the one to get us out of this mess...After all with Bill along as a SILENT partner we get two for the price of one and Obama is not the one...Mcaine is more in tuned with the country. But Ms. Clinton needs to be here to clean up after the "men"...thank you
Don Fowler says that it would be a mistake for Clinton's name to be entered into nomination because it would give the appearance of a divided party. Well, I hate to inform him of this, but the party is almost now fractured beyond repair. Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Donna Brazile, et al should have thought about what would happen before they deciided to hijack the Democratic Party with their delegate shenanigans. We're not buying what they're selling. We know what they did, and we're NOT FALLING IN LINE!! I think the best solution is, for the sake of party unity, to ask Barack Obama not to allow his name to be placed into nomination! This is no more ridiculous than asking that of Senator Clinton.
The Obama folks, the anti-Clinton voters are so misinformed...it's why we say they "drank the kool-aid." To say that Obama won the primary election "fair and "square" is ludicrous. They are oblivious to the facts that have been uncovered by PUMAS...the arm-twisting for superdelegates to state their choices before the primary was even completed; the RBC giving Obama delegates he did not deserve; the financial donations (the last one being $20 million) made by Obama to superdelegates who represent states and precincts where Hillary overwhelmingly won. Without the superdelegates Obama does not win the primary election. When in history has there not been a roll call for a presidential contender that received 18 million votes in the primary? Give me a break -- what are these people thinking. Yep, by criticising, name-calling and trying to intimidate us they think we may go away, change our minds -- I'm even more resolute in my convictions when I read their baseless comments. "And these people VOTE!" -- scary. Nevertheless, a vote is a vote, and McCain has mine...I think the DNC will regret telling the demcratic base that they do not need "those people" any more.
GO PUMAS! BO WILL NOT WIN NOMINATION!!!!!
Two points: First Jimmy Carter's landslide loss to Reagan was not the result of a divided convention. It was because Carter was a bad president. Second, to pretend that the reason for supressing a roll call vote is to avoid showing voters that the nomination was divided is nothing but a lie. The entire world already knows that the Democratic Primaries were closely contested and that Obama barely beat Clinton. So pretending that the party is united behind one candidate is a "fairy tale" assumes that voters have been under a rock for the last nine months. The real reason for supressing a roll call vote should be obvious to everyone ...Obama and the DNC are afraid that enough delegates will flip and Clinton could potentially win the nomination.
The Obama supporters are "bitter winners" They are still after Hillary because they ar hedging their bets. They are running scared. So if he loses, and I hope he doesn't, they can scream racism and Hillary. That way they will not have to face the fact that he is running a terrible campaign.By the way, I now support Obama and am working for his election. But this Hillary obsession by the Obama supporters has got to end.Don't use her for an excuse for a louzy campaign. I only hope that this latest wind surfing vacation doesn't hurt him. Talk about not learning anything from the past.
Funny Mr. Fowler thinks this is a small group. I read their are 3 million people signed up at theJust Say No Deal Coalition. Isn't the role of a delegate to represent the people who voted for a particular candidate? And since Obama does not have enough delegates to secure the nomination at this point, why is there even a question of Hillary's name in nomination. Are you saying Dem. party officials and the DNC are deciding the voters should not be represented, that they will decide the nominee? Is this America or the old USSR? With all the caucas fraud, the Obama campaign paying people to register and vote, Obama stealing 600 thousand votes from Hillary in Mi, and now eliminating the other name from the ballot, I think Jimmy Carter better bring his commission which monitors elections back to the United States.
What is wrong with people to vote a nothing in like Obama,who has accomplished nothing and has ziltch experience ? Has this country gone crazy ? This is scary.What is going on here ?
Our PUMA PROMISE: not another knife will touch Sen. Clinton's back as long as I'm around. We will show you how many of us will vote Nobama 08 in November. 2 DEMs, one in NJ and the other in GA, who endorsed Obama already lost their seats. DNC house of cards will come tumbling down if they will go ahead with their SELECTED not ELECTED nominee.
You people are grasping at straws. The nominating process is over. Obama won, and will be nominated at the convention. I have nothing against Sen. Clinton, but those are the facts. The DNC is not going to let the nomination be snatched from Obama- there is no way the Dems will re-gain the White House in November without his base of African Amreicans and energized youth. Neither of these groups will vote in large numbers for Senator Clinton if the nomination is taken from Obama. They will stay home, McCranky will win, and we will be embroiled in WWIII within a year. Please think before votong for McCain as a protest. He will decide at least one, and possibly two Supreme Court Justices. If that happens, say good-bye to everything Senator Clinton believes in. Think!
The Democratic party should be renamed the NEOLIBRAL party. The onus is on Obama to prove he can win. He has repeatedly proven he is unable to this. He was wrong on the surge and wrong on Georgia. Do we need any futher proof of his inability to lead at this critcal time in our history? The goal is to take back the White House, not lose again in November. Clinton, not Obama is the one who can do this. To Ari: As far as rising tuition both NEOLIBRALS and NEOCONS are pushing for the dismantling of public higher education ( in other words, the privatization of higher education). Of course tuition will rise under this scenario. "Public" (if you can even call it that anymore) education cannot run adequately on only 10% federal funding! The money has to come from somewhere! Privatization is not the solution.
Hillary's behavior and her inciting her supporters to form hate groups such as "PUMA", is the death of her political career. If Obama manages to lose the election, she will be the one to blame. Remember, most people hate her already, you haven't seen anything yet, if you cost this country 4 more years of GWB style government.... beware we much more capable of being vindictive than your little "PUMA" groups... here kitty kitty
Nick Shapiro, Obama campaign spokesman. "At the Democratic Convention, we will ensure that the voices of everyone who participated in this historic process are respected . If Mr. Shapiro means this then Hillary's name will be placed in nomination so the 18 million and super delegates will have their voices heard. However, the actions of party officials toward the Clinton super delegates shows exactly the opposite. Examples Clinton super delegates in KY, GA, OH, PA, CO, OR, and others. Why hasn't the media looked into suppression and threats against deleegates? CQ maybe you could answer that?
This has got to stop and become about America. Democrats have a bad habit of losing elections because they refuse to get along. I voted for Hillary in Florida and donated to her campaign. But Obama won. Now I support his campaign because America cannot afford McBush in office. I am still left with a choice of McBush or the Democrat Obama. I will vote Obama because we need to move away from greed politics. The Clintons need to respect the party and American and support the nominee and not try to muddy the waters this late in the game. It would be irresponsible for them to do anything else. Likewise, it would be foolish to vote for McCain because you might be personally "mad" at Obama. Think of the consequences to yourself and to America to let hard feelings affect your judgment at the polls.
Barbara; I am with you, My vote has never been for sale,and I have voted Dem. since I was first old enough to vote. Which has been a very long time 37 years, I have always thought it was my duty to vote my party line, even if I wasn't sure about the candidate. But, this year will be different, The DNC, has shown me that they no longer care for Women, or that our voices no longer matter.The DNC,should have been the first ones to stand-up for Sen. Clinton, when those sexist remarks were made about on CNN< and MSNBC, but they didn't. But, you can bet your ass, they were the first ones on the News Channels, when anything even remotely smelling like racism,was said about Obama. They took it for granted, that The Clinton's being the good Democrats, that they have been for so long, would just roll over and play dead for Obama. Well they were wrong, and one more thing for you people who think that Obama, ran his campaign, think again Axelrod, and Michelle ran his campaign, just look at all the dirty Chicago political games they ran for Obama, to become Sen. you can see the exact same games being played now. OH! Lida; in case you miss my comments to you on the other blog, I let you know it here too! The remarks that you end every blog with, COUNTRY FIRST, are actually a slogan for Sen. McCain. For someone who seems to know so much, how could you have missed this? Maybe you and McCain have more in common than you think.
I posted on the other site that just today an article appeared on the web that Bill Bower, head of the Just Say No Coalition, and a long time Democrat said he and his coalition will not be votiing for BO should he be nominated. He believes Hillary deserves to be heard on the floor of the convention. So he and his coalition will be voting for the first time for a Republican McCain. Well, Hillary won two to one in my state and there are a lot of us out here who feel the same way. We are already starting Democrats For McCain Campaign should this happen. We don't want another Rep. in the White House but that tells you much the people in my state do not like Obama. I believe she was not treated fairly and she needs to be given the chance to change the nomination vote. It can be done. The delegates can change their vote. Perhaps if enough of them hear us, they will. If not, we are giving ourselves a choice for a real American. And that will be John McCain
Unity? Don't make me laugh. If what happens at the convention is what I think will happen... Some little "bone" like allowing a roll call and a lot of stupid speeches that untimately lead to the "CORONATION" of Ofraudo and the "event" at the stadium, THERE WILL BE NO UNITY. I have voted for 40 years Democrat and I want the DNC to know just how fast I am taking myself and my CHECKBOOK over to John McCain. This is no longer about Hillary CLinton. This is about an inexperienced, criminally associated, baggage laden snob who, had the caucus system and the corrupt DNC finagling been absent, would never have been in any position to achieve the nomination. This GUY is dangerous and I will be damned if I will allow my country to suffer under an Obama Administration. And don't give me the tired old "well, she's probably a closet Republican" or "You will be voting for Bush Redoux by voting for McCain" or the ever popular and desperate pitch about "Roe V Wade". I did 8 years of the BushCheney regime, I can do 4 years of McCain standing on my head. The mistake the corrupt and conspiring felons at the DNC made was to underestimate the Clinton supporters. NO MATTER WHAT...I will NEVER vote for Obama. Were Hillary Clinton on the ticket as VP, still no vote for Obama. If Hillary Clinton was on the top of the ticket and Obama was the VP STILL NO VOTE FOR OBAMA and were Hillary CLinton to call me personally and ask me to vote for Obama the answer would be NO.. What doesn't the DNC "get" about this? they have chosen to cheat for and support an UNELECTABLE candidate who is dropping in the polls daily (where's that "Double Digit" bounce he was supposed to get when CLinton suspended???) There IS NO unity. It is going to get worse for the DNC before it gets better. Call me a sore loser or whatever else you want but my conscience will be clear. I will vote against the pathetic and over-blown image that is Obama and I will sleep just fine. PUMA
Paul Kruger; What makes you think, for one minute that The Clinton's own The DNC anything? The DNC, did nothing but, let the News Stations, make sexist comments about HRC, and did nothing. If those same stations had made racist comments, The DNC, would have been screaming at the top of their lungs. And it is not The Clintons, who are demanding this roll-call, it is her supporters. And The Clintons, have no more control over them, then Obama, does over his supporters, who are still calling people who won't vote for him names. (ie) racists, ignorant,stupid, so maybe when the hate stops on their part, the hate can stop on the HRC supporters part. Until then I have a very strong feeling this is going to be a divided party, going in to NOV.
Lampe, you and Barbara do be long together...you know what they say, "birds of a feather..." I'm still waiting for one of you gals to tell me how Hillary is going to WIN the White House, if by some miracle, she gets the nomination...Your "18 million votes" aren't going to get her there, and I'm sure Senator Obama's "18 MILLION VOTERS" aren't going to go her way. His supporters might not appreciate the old" bait and switch" at the convention. So, Barbara how is she going to get to the White House? I'm still waiting for an answer...oh, the sound of silence and I absolute believe you gals do not put COUNTRY FIRST. PS: (my tag pre-dates McCain's ad...I guess your research didn't go that deep...maybe a republican troll liked it...they are stealing everything else...including the votes of mindless democrats...COUNTRY FIRST.
Lampe you still haven't answered my question about what has Hillary achieved in her "35 years" of experience?...oh the sound of silence...seems to me like you have more info on your man McCain than you do on your gal Hillary...COUNTRY FIRST.
You mindless birds can stop squawking now. Hillary's name is going to be placed in nomination. Now, what other evil things can you say about Senator Obama...COUNTRY FIRST.
In this year's situation, there are two problems with the metrics of conventional polling. 1. 'Percentage of Democrats' ignores the fact that many Hil supporters changed their registration away from the Democratic party in protest, starting around April and peaking in June and July. A recent Ras poll showed that FEWER people consider themselves Democrats now than did in early spring; the number who consider themselves Republicans has held steady. The percentage of Democrats supporting Obama may be up -- because many of his detractors are no longer Democrats. 2. Some Hil supporters plan to protest by voting for McCain, but a larger number plan to protest by staying home (or voting third party, writein, etc). Conventional metrics that begin by eliminating everyone except 'likely voters' will miss the importance of these stayhomes. (In early June, Opinion Research found 4 million stayhomes plus 3 million voting for McCain, totalling 7 million; in early July the total was up to 9 million, three times the margin of victory in 2004).
Two problems with conventional poll metrics in this situation. 1. 'Percentage of Democrats' ignores the fact that many Hil supporters changed their registration away from the Democratic party in protest, starting around April and peaking in June and July. A recent Ras poll showed that FEWER people consider themselves Democrats now than did in early spring; the number who consider themselves Republicans has held steady. The percentage of Democrats supporting Obama may be up -- because many of his detractors are no longer Democrats. 2. Some Hil supporters plan to protest by voting for McCain, but a larger number plan to protest by staying home (or voting third party, writein, etc). Conventional metrics that begin by eliminating everyone except 'likely voters' will miss the importance of these stayhomes. (In early June, Opinion Research found 4 million stayhomes to 3 million voting for McCain, totalling 7 million; in early July the total was up to 9 million, three times the margin of victory in 2004).
In July, Opinion Research found 9 million Hil's refusing to support Obama (up from 7 million in June). Recently a Quin. poll found no improvement for Obama among Hil's over the last couple of months. Now here is a Pew poll also finding no change in support. http://pewresearch.org/pubs/924/presidential-race-draws-even "The Obama campaign has made no significant headway among former Clinton backers over the past two months. The voting preferences of Clinton's supporters are virtually identical to earlier polls in June and July." OpRes found more Hil holdouts than the other two pollsters, but this must have been methodology rather than a change in voters' opinions, because ALL THREE pollsters show 'puma' votes are HOLDING STEADY (in OpRes, Obama lost 2 million). In June, Opinion Research's breakdown was 3 million voting for McCain and 4 million staying home. Here is Pew's current breakdown: "Among the 28% who say they will not support Obama on November 4th, 18% say they will support McCain , 7% don't yet know who they will support and 3% plan to back another candidate." Note that Pew is not counting stayhomes! So if there have been no changes in preference, the Dems will be losing considerably more votes than indicated by Pew's 28% if they nominate Obama. The good news is, that by nominating HIllary, they can retrieve enough 'puma' votes to make a Dem victory in November assured.
Still trying to make sense of the polls. Apparently they are consistent if we note that some of them count stay-homes as part of the anti-Obama force, and some of them ignore stay-homes. Each pollster seems to be holding steady with its own previous findings. Pew, August 13, 2008: "The Obama campaign has made no significant headway among former Clinton backers over the past two months. The voting preferences of Clinton's supporters are virtually identical to earlier polls in June and July." Pew, NOT COUNTING STAYHOMES, finds "Among the 28% who say they will not support Obama on November 4th, 18% [c. 3 million] say they will support McCain , 7% don't yet know who they will support and 3% plan to back another candidate." Quin also found no improvement for BO among Hil's in recent months (and their totals resemble Pew's iirc). Opinion Research, which DID COUNT STAYHOMES, found 9 million total anti-Obamas in July, UP from 7 million in June (4 million stayhome, 3 million McCain). I've put up a diary at clintondems.com with more detail and cites at h t t p : / / clintondems.com/2008/08/polls-holding-steady-9-mil-hils-against-obama/
Lida, don't confuse the silence of responding to you a fact that we do not know what we are talking about. The silence to you is, we do not want to respond to you anymore. Take all your knowledge and facts and boasting and go and find a site for your candidate Obama. This is not the place for you. This is a campaign for Hillary. So do not expect anyone to be listening to you anymore. You are done in this room
Hillary should be the Democratic nominee never mind this keynote speech proposal. If Obama wants to win in november he had better put Hillary on the ticket. Failing to do that will see a lot of Hillary's supporters decide that John McCain is looking pretty good.
Statement Issued and Released Statement Issued and Released on the world wide web at http://www.goclaire.4t.com Contact information: Jeff Kenkel co-chairman Honjeffkenkel@yahoo.com Cell 417 380 2530 or cell 417 336 9496 home Dear Barack Obama: It has to be McCaskill to win! 1. Claire McCaskill needs to be the Vice Presidential Candidate to capture the female vote in November. 2. As Missouri goes so goes the nation. JOHN MCCAIN 50% BARACK OBAMA 44% John McCain leads Barack Obama in Missouri , according to the latest Rasmussen Reports survey. When "leaners" are included in the survey, McCain leads Obama 50% to 44%. When just solid supporters are tabulated, the results changes slightly: McCain 48%, Obama 41%. Clearly Claire McCaskill as a dynamic campaigner can turn that around and help win Missouri and other states with her down home talking. 3. To run a real campaign based on "Change" having two candidates who are outside the beltway and that have not only the feel but the real pulse of the people. Mr. Obama Please consider Senator McCaskill this week as you make your decision. Thank you and enjoy your vacation time. Sincerely, Jeff Kenkel ###
You know what,I also feel like a lot of you here and do not want to say it. I will not vote for a Black Man in the White House. Call me a anything you want but you know there are a lot of you in this room who feel the same way and will not say it. I am saying it. I do not want a Black man as the President of the US. Not this Black man. Maybe if there was someone else who convinced me that he was right for this Country, then I would consider it. But he is not the one. I will not vote for him and I have a choice, beiing an American. I can vote for a Black man who knows nothing, or a White man, who is a Great American. I know Hillary will not be able to pull it off. The press treated her badly. But for the first time in my life I will not be voting for a Democrat. I wanted Hillary and for second choice it will be McCain. There I said it. Now shoot me.
Just one more of the "loud, but small group" members chiming in. :) PUMA supports HRC for president. We declare that the DNC finagled the public AND the vote results to illegally put forward their nominee, Obama. As such we will NEVER, and I don't care WHAT they try to offer, either shut up, sit down OR support their dangerous candidate. So...there.
Oh Babas, that just won't do...you have no facts...that's the reality...that's why I love being on this mindless site, because it prooves NONE OF YOU CAN ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS, BECAUSE HILLARY COMES UP EMPTY ON ALL COUNTS...COUNTRY FIRST.
Yes, Hillary should be the nominee for President. Speeches are just words, and words like 'keynote speech' are just words about words! Putting Hillary on as VP doesn't help either. A WP/ABC July poll found that repels as many people as it attracts. It's probably Kos types and GOP who are repelled, but many strong Hillary supporters, judging from the reaction at sites like bitterpoliticz, pumapac, etc, also oppose seeing her as Obama's VP.
Barbara, when did this blog become one for Hillary supporters only? It hasn't. I would also like to say that while I have no problem with Hillary's name being on the role call, I would like to know how many of you PUMA's realize that she will NOT be the nominee. In the first place, while I agree with her on most issues, she is one of the most polarizing people in American politics. For crying out loud GET THE HELL OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also one more thing. I am male. You know the stereotype about women being irrational and hysterical? I, as a 22 year old male liberal do not agree with that stereotype. However, you PUMA's are making it look true. By the way, not all women voted for Hillary. All of my female friends voted for Obama. One more thing about polls. The pollsters cannot call cell phones. Most people under the age of 30 do not have land lines. With that in mind, they are missing a huge chunk of the voting population and as a member of the 18-30 demographic, I can tell you that we will be backing Obama by at least a 2 -1 ration over McSame.
Barbara, I strongly disagree and would flag your post as offensive if I knew how.
Actually the current Pew poll does contact cell phones: Obama has made little progress in increasing his support among core Democrats since June - currently 83% favor him [....] The likely Democratic nominee is still getting relatively modest support from Hillary Clinton's former supporters: 72% of them support Obama [....] The latest national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, was conducted by telephone - both landline phones and cell phones - from July 31-August 10 among 2,414 registered voters. http://pewresearch.org/pubs/924/presidential-race-draws-even Note this 28% (near 5 million) of Hil's not supporting Obama does NOT consider people who plan to protest by staying home instead of voting. The stayhomes total somewhere around 4-6 mil per Opinion Research. More details and cites at turndownobama.
For a nation that DESPISED US, you all want to bite off all our slogans. Country before party...that's OUR line. THen Mccain picked up the country first thing....now Obamabots are using it? WTH? Stop stealing already and get your own damned ideas.Oh..right, you follow your lying, empty headed, thieving candidates example. Hmph.
Babara, Can you tell me which part of the following quote ISN'T RACIST? "I will not vote for a Black Man in the White House. Call me a anything you want but you know there are a lot of you in this room who feel the same way and will not say it. I am saying it. I do not want a Black man as the President of the US. Not this Black man." It's your quote and it reeks of hate...no wonder why none of you gals can answer any of my questions about Hillary and what exactly are her 35 year of experience or how is she going to get to the white house without Senator Obama's "18 MILLION VOTERS," because none of that matters. You ladies just don't want a BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE...Wow, you gals manage to touch on every stereotype there is...Hysterical angry feminists (faux feminists in my book), and bigots...what a lovely group of gals...COUNTRY FIRST.
Barbara, the silence is definitely because YOU gals DO NOT know what you are talking about - fiction 24/7 in Hillaryland...This Hillary fiasco has done more damage to the advancement of women -- damage at the hands of other women...to ignorant to see it...see how many women raise in politics after this drama...COUNTRY FIRST.
Senator Clinton's name will be placed in nomination at the convention. This was the first step, and now we need to make sure that the entire Denver convention is not a coronation. If this is just a "symbolic gesture" to placate Hillary democrats, we will obviously ALL know and that will not be acceptable. We want a true and NORMAL convention, a real democratic process in which our votes will be counted, and our voices will be heard. WE care about our country, and we KNOW Barry Soetoro will lose the White House if he becomes the official nominee, unless his ACORN buddies keep helping him. It's either Senator Clinton NOW or in four years, and democrats can't wait ANYMORE. We need to turn this country around and get behind the democrat who has experience, one who has a LONG history (a recorded history) of fighting for democratic principles, and we need to fight for OUR COUNTRY NOW! I will not accept ANOTHER arrogant and inexperienced president. No Way. I will especially not support this FAKE democrat. (How DARE he vote for Bush's FISA and Cheney's Energy Bill!!!) NEVER forget all those exit polls of Clinton voters who said they would NOT SUPPORT Obama. The numbers were HUGE. They were pumas, whether they knew it then or not: it simply means: party unity my ass, and if you are a democrat and you will not support Soetoro...guess what? YOU ARE A PUMA. "Obama" and the "changed" corrupt and slimey DNC / RBC will never get my vote. There is no reward for stealing delegates, and for turning caucuses into under-handed dealings; there is no reward for using racial accusations, bullying tactics, and misogyny to thrive politically. There is no reward for using America's media as a non-vetting propaganda tool to protect and promote one candidate while attacking another, and calling for that candidate to quit...no no no. Contant LIES will NEVER EVER be rewarded. NONE of it is just and I will NOT VOTE for an unjust candidate!! I will not vote for a candidate who inspires the base nature in others, instead of the best in all of us. NEVER will I support "Barack Obama," one who flips the bird, and brushes his shoulders off, while FLUNKING at every single debate and pathologically lying and scheming, and USING so many gullible people. Damn straight, this is one democrat who will never support Obama, his media, or his slithering Dean, Brazile, Pelosi, Reid, etc etc. Just Say No Deal Puma Pac The Denver Group P.U.M.A.
BO will never be President of the United States. The Hillary Democrats will see to that. Plus we have Obama Democrats giving him a second thouight. Putting that together AOL poll has McCain winning over Obama. Also the new trend of Dem for McCain will hurt him. Told ya so.
PUMA has more that 2 million people willing to change their vote. That is more than enough to tip an election in November.
Turndownobma, you can flag me or do whatever you want but this is still America and I have a right under the 2nd amendment to voice my opinion. I am certain of the fact that there are many Blacks who did not vote for Hillary because of her color. So go after them. I do not find my remarks to be offensive compared to what I have read my remarks are mild. I have been called a lot of names and have found them offensive too. Everyone has a right to their opinion and if you find any of my remarks to be offensive to you then you have a right to answer me or leave the room and not listen to me anymore. On this page, everyone has a right to say what they think and believe. Right now I do not believe he is the Person to be in the White House. Perhaps if he were white and had the similar experience I still would feel the same. I have often said that the only Black man I would vote for would be Gen C. Powell. But he is not available. But for now, I do not want This Black Man as President of the United States.
Barbara, You just crack me up. You still can't figure out that "other black guy's" name - Gen. C. Powell...come on Barbara what does the "C" stand for? Think real hard...has it come to you yet?...I still waiting for some facts to regarding Hillary's experience and how is she getting to the white house without the "18 MILLION OBAMA VOTERS." Come on, someone out there give it a shot and answer the question...oh yeah, there are no facts to back up anything you gals are saying, just a lot of ignorance...bunch of TURNCOAT REPUBLICANS...COUNTRY FIRST.
Barbara;Please don't feel you owe any of these Obama supporters anything. You are free to speak,that is your god-given right. You and I both know from blogs, on this site that there are alot of people who didn't vote for Sen. Clinton, because she is white. But, that's okay,they don't seem to think that there's anything racist about that.Iwanted Sen. Clinton to be POTUS, had The DNC, done what they are supposed to, I would have no problem voting Dem. in Nov. OH!, by the way did your hear the remarks that Howard Dean made yesterday? That the AA's do better in The Democratic Party, than in the White Party, then corrected himself to say The Republican Party. Sounds a little like The DNC, is starting to show their trur colors, shows me just what that think of White People, way to go DNC.
I forgot to mention I don't know what the GOP stands for or the DNC or Dem or Rep. I really cannot think of any other iinitials that I don't get. Oh I found another for Lida.Lida is Disastrously asinine.
Lampe, looks like your spreading your lies on both sites...Hey Lampe & all you other gals...this was Howard Dean's EXACT QUOTE. "IF YOU LOOK AT FOLKS OF COLOR, EVEN WOMEN, THEY'RE MORE SUCCESSFUL IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAN THEY ARE IN THE WHITE, UH, EXCUSE ME, IN THE [LAUGHS] REPUBLICAN PARTY." His quote is much more extensive and INCLUSIVE, but you won't get that from Lampe's lies...You can listen to the whole quote below if you want the truth...And the fact is that the Republican party is not brimming with minorities nor women. http://www.breitbart.tv/html/153493.html Lampe, how do you continue to lie like that...jeeze, where's your integrity...oh, hey your with the PUMAs. They don't have any...Isn't PUMApac headed by a REPUBLICAN woman who supported McCain in 2000...so easy to trick you birds...COUNTRY FIRST.
Lampe, That's good of you encouraging Barbara to keep her trap shut, because she would be a laughing stock trying to actually come up with some sort of "Hillary Strategy" to the white house...the only strategy you gals have is working to get McCain elected president...I'M STILL WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT HILLARY ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN HER 35 YEARS...OH, SOMEONE OUT THERE TELL ME HOW YOU GAL ARE GOING TO THE WHITE HOUSE WITHOUT OBAMA'S 18 MILLION VOTERS...are you gals just going to throw another tantrum and demand that she just become president, because you just think she would be jolly good at the job?...It's not like she has to WIN an election or anything...You're not making sense ladies...OH, yeah you live in Hillaryland, those residents stopped dealing in logic back in FEBRUARY...COUNTRY FIRST.
Yes Barbara you are right. It is "Disastrously asinine" of me to think you could state some FACTS regarding Hillary's 35 years of experience, or how Hillary will get to the white house without the "18 MILLION OBAMA VOTERS?" Come on Barbara, answer the questions. Hey, I got some initials for you...S.H.E. L.O.S.T. ...COUNTRY FIRST.
Lida; I guess Sen. Clinton, is not going to get in the White House, without Obama's supporters. But, I also guess that Obama, won't get there either without her 18 million supporters. So youi can just keep your threats to yourself. you vote your way, and I'll vote mine, and we'll both put McCain in offfice.
Lampe, Nice to see you admit that Hillary has no way of getting to the White House, and your stunt is only about helping McCain become president...you are just a REPUBLICAN STOOGE!...COUNTRY FIRST!
Lida, you know should be ashamed of the way you call people names, like Republican Stooge. But just for the record it tells you that we who do NOT LIKE OBAMA will do anything to keep him out of the White House. And guess what. I will take McCain and be happy just as long as your friend is no where in sight. You will NEVER SEE OBAMA IN THE WHITE HOUSE. Face it. We may not get Hillary but you WILL NEVER GET OBAMA.
Dear Barbara: I suspect that some people have nothing better going on in their lifes, then to post blogs, which call people names. If people can't really see beyond race or sex, then maybe what we need is a third party, for people who really want things to be different, nitice I did not us the word change, because I think that word has been played-out. My complaint really isn't with Obama, it is more with The DNC, and his followers, they seem to think that any one that isn't for him, is not American. Had this election process, been fair and above board, I would have no problem voting Democrat, but until The DNC, does right, by The Clintons, and their supporters there will not be unity in this party. And if that means changing parties, then so-be-it.
Lampe, you ALSO seem to be doing an awful lot of blogging...I guess you have nothing better in you life to do. I'm doing it because I can't stand to see my country being destroyed by empty-heads, while you do it to welcome its demise..You've got to be kidding when you say that "people can't see beyond race or gender." I think you better go re-read you gal pal Barbara's past posts. They reek of racism...and the only reason why you want Hillary to be president is, because she is female, not because she is QUALIFIED. You talk about "change" being play-outed, well you are wrong...You ladies and this destructive stunt are wearing thin and will completely destroy Hillary's career...but I'm she she will find a way to blame it on someone else...COUNTRY FIRST.
Barbara, you just don't get it...It's beyond Senator Obama and Senator Clinton. It is about correcting the course that this nation is on...Anyone who is gleefully accept the incompetent McCain is A REPUBLICAN STOOGE...As long as I am speaking the truth, I have nothing to be ashamed of...I am ashamed of vengeful women like you Barbara, who give feminism a bad name...COUNTRY FIRST.
Lamp, I could not have said it better. Good for you and a good for a great response.
Hey Lida I have some initials for you B.O. I think you can figure it out. No B.O. in the White House. I want MY COUNTRY FIRST.
Barbara, and it took you how many days to come up with that quip? You're not exactly quick on your feet, and it wasn't even remotely funny...and STEALING someone else's tag line...just like the REPUBLICAN YOU ARE...btw, the "MY" in your tag is incorrect...this country does not only belong to you, it belongs to ALL AMERICANS...COUNTRY FIRST.
I'm a mad Democrat but not because Obama won but because of the way the DNC and their leaders like Dean, Donna Brazile, Pelosi, Kennedy, Byrd, Kerry, Dodd, Reid, etc., conducted the primary. Corrupt caucuses, corrupt superdelegates, eliminating two states for changing primary date and catering to other states that changed their primary dates, backroom corruption with superdelegates, corrupt caucuses placing only one candidate's supporters in the group and not allowing a fair count for each candidate. It was dishonest and disgusting, they removed my right to vote by giving it to superdelegates. It was worse than when the US Supreme Court selected George Bush for president. I was even more disgusted to see Senate and Congress members go against their District and State constituent's vote to endorse a candidate that did not win. To see any politician go against their own constituent's wishes is dangerous to the survival of any political party. None of them will ever get my vote. I've been a Democratic all my voting life and will never support the Democratic Party again until they have gotten rid of the corruption that ran ramped in this primary. There are thousands of us that will not vote for Obama or any other Democrat because of the out and out corruption they used to select a candidate of their choice rather than allowing any form of Democracy in our right to vote. It's not about Hillary but my right to vote that was taken away. I'm even madder to hear over and over thousands of us are sore losers..............we are not mad because anyone lost but soar losers because Democracy was lost. WHAT IS IT ABOUT THAT they just don't understand?
Lida; I see from your latest blog, that you only read what you want to read. I wrote before, it wouldn't have mattered to me if Sen. Clinton, had been a Black Women, or a Black man, or A white man, I believed in what she said, so I don't know where you get off telling me I voted for her simply because she was a woman. And people like you with your name calling are the one's who continue to tear this party apart. You said we are tearing apart everything that any woman has ever fought for the right to have. Well my dear the thing here is yes I have fought, as have many a women before me. Now the question comes down to this. Was my fight to have my vote counted equally, in vain? And my dear the answer to that for me is yes. Now maybe it's your turn to fight the fight for women. I don't know how you plan on doing itnor do I care. But, if you let The DNC, tell any woman, that they are hags,or brain-less,or whinners, now, then good luck gettting them to careabout your vote in a few years. The thing is you don't seem to think this is a big problem, maybe it isn't, but if women don't stand up for themselves now, then you can kiss hundreds of years of women fighting to be equals good-bye.
I feel sorry for John Edwards, who is not permitted to speak at the convention. If Bill Clinton can speak, why can't John Edwards?
Lampe, You clearly missed the reality of the primary race...I spend hours a day following it, and I'm sick of the hearing the crap about how the race was sexist and oh poor Hillary, and then some how blaming the DNC...HILLARY LOST THE RACE...It wasn't because of sexism, it was because SHE RAN A TERRIBLE CAMPAIGN -- THE WORST EVER! Like an great feminist, she should suck it up and move on, but maybe she isn't a feminist at all...She is a FAUX FEMINIST. If you don't see what's at stake for the future of women in this upcoming election, then you are either blind or willfully ignorant...COUNTRY FIRST.
Doug, you've got to be kidding me...he was willing to risk the state of the democratic party for his own ego...I NEVER want to hear from him again!...COUNTRY FIRST.
I am saddened to see so much namecalling in people's comments. I wish we could have a more civil discourse--disagree, by all means, but leave the juvenile stuff behind. Can't Democrats strive to be better than Rush Limbaugh and his ilk? And I have to say that most of the namecalling among previous comments is being done by Hillary Clinton supporters. I see references like "Omabots" and "Ofraudo" and "BO" (in a bad way). And then you complain about sexism. If you want to hold the media and everyone else to higher standards--start setting a good example. Otherwise you have no right to complain.
Can I ask why all of you so-called HRC supporters dont' each send her a dollar or two to eliminate her campaign debt? If, as you say, there are 18 million of you, that much should really be able to eliminate it. Or are you really what I think that you are? Closeted republicans trying to cause trouble in the democratic party? If you do not each send her a couple dollars to retire her debt (which she ran up by deciding to stay in the race even when it was mathematically impossible for her to clinch the nomination) then you are NOT true Clinton supporters. Yet you think that Barack Obama should help her retire her debt. Is it his fault that she did not quit when she ran out of money? Most people quit campaigning when they are out of money. She did not have the sense to do that. Whats the game here? Either the 18 million of you (if there really are that many who were not just following orders from Rush Limbaugh) send her a couple of bucks, or SHUT UP about Obama needing to help HRC retire her campaign debt.
Ari; Do you know, for sure that this debt, has not already been paid off? I do not take orders from Rush Limbaugh, nor will I be forced to vote for someone, just because The DNC, took it upon themselves to make backroom deals. Nor, will I vote for someone that Nancy Peposi, says is a God Send. I am sure Obama, is not the savior, that everyone says he is.
I am a Conservative Republican because I believe in the 2nd Amendment. I am also Pro Life. I believe Marriage is between a man and a woman, I believe we should pay a maximum of 10% consumption tax. I also believe the schools should be teaching abstinence instead of handing out condoms. I believe if I am smart enough to earn my money I should be smart enough to spend it. I believe that life begins at the time of conception. I am Proud of my Country and would not want to live anywhere else. I also believe in God and I like it that way.
Lampe, according to CNN HRC is still mired in campaign debt. Also, when I made that comment about Rush Limbaugh maybe I should have been clearer. I did not mean to imply that you took orders from him. However, many of his listeners did take it upon themselves to vote for HRC in hopes that it would cause riots in Denver during the convention. That is what I have read. As for Obama, I never have believed that he is a savior. In fact, he was not even my first choice although as a 22 year old university student I definitely fall into the demographic that supported him overwhemingly. Most, if not all, of my friends voted for him. However, my first choice was Dennis Kucinich who is a true progressive. My second choice was John Edwards who is also progressive. I do not care about his personal misfortunes. I think that he would have been a great president. I was eager to vote for him. However, he dropped out before I could. Both of the aforementioned candidates names were on the ballot for the Arizona Democratic Primary on Super Tuesday. I just did not feel like wasting my vote on two guys who were out of the race. I was not too crazy about the prospect of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton either which is why I voted for Obama. I agree with HRC on most of the issues that she ran on and do not agree with John McCain on anything despite him being my senator. I actually voted for the guy who only got 22 percent of the vote in 2004. I did not mean to make it sound like you personally listened to Rush Limbaugh. By the way Rep in the House, schools are NOT handing out condoms. Where on earth would you get an idea like that?
Ari, I did not make up that comment about getting condoms in schools. In my State, condoms are readily available in the High Schoo if they go to the Nurse and she will hand them out. That is all part of the Sex Education in High School. It is not my idea, it is fact.
Ari; Maybe Rush Limbaugh, got exactly what he wanted. Maybe he wanted Obama, to win. By putting his two-cents into the mix, he got the weaker of the two democrats to win, therefore making sure that a Republican, will stay in The White House. I honestly believe that The Republicans wanted to have this election against Obama, and not Clinton,because they knew deep down the Clinton's were fighters to the end, and they didn't want that. In a year when Dems, should be a shoe in to win, Obama, has never been more than 10 points ahead of McCain.
One more thing Are I did not mention is that I come from a very Democratic State. The Republicans are in the minoriity. Liberalism is the theme in my State. Every Public School District has their own right and the right of the Principal to decide should they or should they not hand out condoms. This is to teach them how to protect themselves from pregnancy. And the kids like it that way. Everyone knows that High School Teens are going to try sex. They figure this is the way to protect them. Not teaching abstinence, but teaching them protection. I also live in a very Catholic State. Being that the Bishop is against this means nothing. We are talking about Public School not Private or Parochial, just Public Schools.
Lamp, I don't believe any Republican wanted either Hillary or Obama as an opponent. I believe we just want Senator McCain. It makes no difference to us who the Dems have as a candidate. We feel with McCain we will win. What Rush thinks means little to me or anyone I know. We are true Conservatives so no matter what, we want a Conservative in the White House. So be it Hillary or Obama, I believe we will keep the White House in the hands of the Republicans in November. Our Values differ greatly from the Democrats and that is the whole point. We need a change in the Judiciary and that is what we are waiting for. We need a change on the war and how we fight terrorism. We need off shore drilling, we need not to have our taxes raised. We need to give the Government back to the people and I think McCain can do this for us. Like I said before, If we are smart enough to earn our money then we should be smart enough to spend it the way we want and not to give it back in Taxes. I am not in this room to change anyone's mind. That is not my goal. But I have to say that reading what I have read, you Dems can become very nasty with each other, and I don't know why. We are different so be it and let everyone think what they want. This is the freedom we have. No one could ever make me a Democrat no matter what they said.
Rep in the House, what state do you live in? Lampe, maybe you are right. But ask yourself this. Why would Rush Limbaugh have told his voters to cross over for HRC if he wanted Obama to be the nominee? Is that really logical? No it is not. Wait until the debates. I think that Obama is going to whoop McCain. He did not do so well on Saturday night because unlike McCain, he did not know what the questions would be.
Ari; Both Obama, and Mccain knew what subjects, were going to be discussed. And Pastor Warren,said " I was going to give both Obama, and McCain the first question, so they would be a little prepared, but because McCain was late, Obama was the only one who had the first question." So therefore it was Obama, that had the advantage, not McCain. If Obama,can't talk to a Pastor, in a one on one peaceful setting, without getting his words twisted, what makes you think he will do better in the debates, where the questions are often fast and furious.
Lampe, Senator Obama never got his words twisted. You obviously never actually witnessed a person thinking and speaking at the same time. The thinking process hasn't been on display in the political arena in this country for the past 8 years. McCain on the other hand, spoke in rehearsed sound bites that came from his stump speech...there was NO ON THE SPOT THINKING involved. The majority of the people want the "sound bites." because the former is a method that they would have to follow, and it is actually too taxing on their brains...COUNTRY FIRST.
Lida; I'm sorry to be the one to inform you, but each and everyday, Obama, is slipping more and more in the polls. In a year, where Dems. were supposed to win hands down, the polls show that Obama, and McCain are neck and neck. Maybe, Obama is not the Chosen One,that everbody thought he was.
It is really beyond me how you can be so gleeful to see McCain become president...People always vote their fear...I don't really care what the polls say. I know who would make a better commander and chief, but the reality is that the majority of this country is not too bright...just look who they elected TWICE...THE ELECTORATE WILL GET WHAT THEY DESERVE...unfortunately for the rest of us, we will suffer too...Lampe, if you read my past posts, I said that Senator Obama was not going to get elected...I don't think that is a reflection of him but of the ignorance of this sad nation...WOMEN KISS YOUR RIGHTS GOOD BYE. 40 YEARS DOWN THE DRAIN...and you are happy? You are no feminist, but a very sad bitter woman who just wants to say I told you so...will the destruction of this nation be worth it? ...COUNTRY FIRST.
From the looks of the CNN article below, it looks like you ladies are not really showing your support for Hillary...she still has the same massive debt that she allowed herself to incur. Where exactly are her 18 million supporters?...One dollar each ladies, and her debt would be done...she's not worth 100 pennies, but she's good enough for the White House....what a joke! (CNN) -- Well over two months have passed since Hillary Clinton formally abandoned her White House bid, but newly-released Federal Election Commission reports show the New York senator has made little headway in paying off her sizeable campaign debt. According to an FEC report filed Wednesday, Clinton's debt as of the end of July stood at just under $24 million -- a decrease of only $1.2 million since the end of June. More than $13 million of that total is owed to the New York senator herself, while close to $11 million is owed to individual vendors. Clinton has suggested she is not seeking to pay back the money she owes herself. The report also shows Clinton was only able to raise $2 million in the month of July -- down from close to $3 million in June. By comparison, Barack Obama raised over $50 million for his White House bid in the same time period. The report comes as some high-profile Clinton backers have expressed disappointment Obama has not made more of an effort to help his onetime rival retire her campaign debt. "He has provided her with a pittance compared to what the Clintons have given Obama," prominent Clinton backer Lynn Forrester told the Times of London. "Her debt could have been cleared within 10 days. It's ungracious." Obama and Clinton have appeared at a handful of joint fundraising events, and the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee has publicly urged his supporters to donate to his former primary season rival -- though at a joint appearance with Clinton at a July fundraiser, the Illinois senator forgot to call on his backers to contribute to her. (He later went back on stage to correct himself.) According to Clinton's disclosure forms filed Thursday, she owes the most ($5.2 million) to her former top advisor Mark Penn's polling/political consulting firm, Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates.
Well, all you Hillary Democrats I guess this site is now DEAD. You have a good VP in Joe Biden. If I were a Democrat I would leave the Hillary anger behind and cast my vote for the party. But you won't do that. I am a Republican and I tell you that the Obama, Biden, ticket is a very interesting one. Joe Biden is a great man and I only wish he were a Republican. So I think he may change things somewhat for us and he may actually give us a bit of a fight for the White House. I still feel confident only less so that McCain can pull it off now. It will depend on who his VP is. So far we have no clue, but the ones I saw as possibilities I don't like. I will have to wait and see who his choice for VP is. I will still vote Rep. because of McCain. I think the President has the final word on things and I think he is the better candidate. So I think this site is mute and should be closed by now.
Rep. In The House; I'm sorry to inform you, but Biden, was not the best pick for V.P. He only got about 9,500 votes to Sen. Clintons Millions. So I would think right about now, you would be very happy, because you are going to get your wish. Come Nov. there will be another Republican President In The White House. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!
Lampe, don't blame "rep in the house" for delivering the White House to McCain. It is you and the rest of the bitter Hillary supporters that will be to blame. YOUR WISH WILL COME TRUE, but in the process Hillary's political career will be destroyed...You TURNCOAT DEMOCRATS WILL NEVER BE FORGIVEN..
My hat is off to Valhalla. I'm totally in agreement. Thanks for the succinct commentary
Hello, Please, I beg those of you who will vote for John McCain because they feel Hillary was not treated fairly. Hillary's love "is" for this country and the people in it. "Do Not Disrespect Her Love of Country" Don't vote for John McCain. He is just George Bush a bit shorter and older. This is not a game! This is your life. Do not fixate on the nonsense. Look at the real issues. This election is not about Obama or Clinton or McCain. This election is about the people of this nation. Clinton and Obama are so close on issues and McCain is Bush. John McCain is so far from Hillary on the hopes for the people of this country, particularly on the issue of healthcare. Vote the issues. Vote Healthcare, John McCain doesn't feel your company should support it, that you can get it on your own. Vote on Iraq and the other wars John McCain wants. He is so quick to want to attack without thinking and without considering the cost. Vote against the draft which McCain supports. Vote Supreme Court Justices. Ladies McCain wants to take your rights away and overturn Roe v. Wade, he and Bush consider birth contol akin to abortion, they do support medical insurance covering birth control. John McCain has no great respect for women. Do not be fooled. He is using Hillary Cinton now to divide the Democratic party. Vote Democratic and vote your country.
Unfortunately I live in Florida, but I am still a Democrat! I had every intention of voting for Hillary in the General Election, but we all know why that didn't happen. I will still vote for a Democrat in Nov. because that is my party and that's who I'll stand by. you devoted followers of Hillary need to do the same. How can any one call themselves Democrats and consider voting for McCain. And how dare McCain speak for Hillary. Did anyone see his televised add? He is trying to win over any angry followers to his side, with his so called sympathy for Hillary. We need to show him that his underhanded approach will not work! So PLEASE help bring the Democrats into the White House in November.
Diane, reading your post, taught me to be nicer in my appeal to women democratic leaning towards McCain...Ladies, THE DEMOCRATS NEED YOU IN NOVEMBER. THE COUNTRY NEEDS YOU...MY SON NEEDS YOUR DEMOCRATIC VOTE. I know, you love your country just as much as I do!
Diane: How can you support a Party, that didn't even care enough for you to let your vote and your voice be heard? If you vote Democrat in Nov., you are just telling them that you don't care how they treat you, because you will be a True Democrat to the end.
Hillary ran a great race. Mistakes were made on both sides. The delegate fight should have begun WHEN the DNC decided not to allow Michigan and Florida's primaries. In all honesty, would it have been a fair race if the table was turned? Meaning, if Barack had placed his name on the ballots and Hillary didn't, could we really believe we had won? Don't think so. Hillary is about what is right and moving on. The bigger picture is getting rid of the Republicans. Period. Hillary will always be our hero! Ladies, PLEASE, let's not act like most men expect us to; whinning and crying. Support Hillary by supporting the democratic ticket.
Pam; I'm sorry, be we are acting just like men expect us to. Too just roll over, and play nicey-nice. The expect us to just get behind Obama, all The DNC, has done is told women, that our voices don't matter, and that we are not smart enough to know which is the better candidate.
Lampe, you are acting just like men expect you to...you are the stereotypical angry, whinny, vengeful, spiteful feminist...You're doing a great job carrying the republican water...and now you can start carrying Gov. Palin's water too! Palin is the "anti-Hillary," but it doesn't matter to you gals...nothing like using a woman as a political stunt...It shows such respect for the gender!
McCian, is no more using Palin, for votes, then The DNC, is using Obama, as their token candidate. I have more respect for my gender, then you will ever have. You as a woman let The DNC, and Obama,throw The Clintons under the bus. For what a no-talent Social Worker? I am very proud to be a women, and I will vote for any woman running. If you want to vote for the same old tired boys, well just go right on ahead. Because as I've told you before, my greatest pleasure, will be in knowing that in Nov, when we cast our votes, my vote will be heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lampe, like I said, you are the stereotype that gives feminists a bad name...It is a very sad day when republicans can use women against their own gender...angry old female democrats have become women's worst enemy!
WOW! I can't wait to vote for Gov. Pa;in. What a great pick, at least The Republican's are ready to make a women V.P. Unlike The Democrats which only think men can do the job.
Lampe, women like you are women's worst enemy.
Lida: Knowing that I still get under your skin, is the best part of all this.
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