CQ Transcriptwire

SPEAKERS: CANDY CROWLEY, GUEST HOST

JANET NAPOLITANO, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY

[*] CROWLEY: This is CNN “State of the Union” report for Sunday, December 27th. I’m Candy Crowley. John King is off. We begin this Sunday morning with new details emerging about the Christmas Day attempted terrorist attack against the Northwest Airlines flight carrying 289 people. Here is what we know so far -- the suspect, 23-year-old Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, has been charged with trying to destroy -- to destroy the airplane. Federal authorities say the Nigerian national boarded the Northwest flight in Amsterdam, Netherlands, with a device attached to his body. The airplane was forced to make an emergency landing at Detroit Metropolitan Airport when Mutallab tried to ignite the device, which investigators say contained a powerful explosive known as PETN.

We have reports from Michigan, London, and Lagos, Nigeria. We want to begin with Deborah Feyerick at the Detroit airport in Romulus, Michigan. Deborah.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Candy, this investigation is in full throttle. Authorities in more than half a dozen of countries are trying to track down who this guy met with and how he became radicalized.

Christmas Day, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab detonated an explosive device attempting to blow up a Northwest passenger plane with some 290 people on board. The 23-year-old Nigerian, who witnesses say looks a lot like a teenager, comes from a very prominent Nigerian family. He attended one of the best universities in London and was living in a multimillion-dollar apartment in central London. His father was chairman until recently of Nigeria’s major bank.

Now, even the father feared that his son was going down a very dangerous path and becoming radicalized. About three months ago, he went to the U.S. embassy, warning officials that he feared his son was about to take part in jihad. The son had contacted him by a text message, saying that he was leaving school in Dubai, where he had just started studying, and instead was going to Yemen to pursue Islam. Now, Yemen is where the suspect would later tell officials that he got this explosive device and where he learned how to use it. And according to the criminal complaint, the instructions meant going into the plane’s bathroom as the plane was beginning its descent into Detroit, and he was there for about 20 minutes, witnesses say, came back to his seat, then tried to conceal the device with a blanket. Moments later, it ignited.

Now, quick-thinking passengers were able to put out the flames which had began to go up the side of the airplane wall. They were also able to subdue the suspect. That suspect now at a local Michigan hospital. He is being treated for second and third degree burns. He did appear before a judge yesterday. He was very calm, very polite. He had said he had a much better day than the day earlier when he tried to detonate this device. He is facing charges of attempting to bring down that passenger plane using an explosive device. Clearly, Candy, more charges to follow, including likely attempted murder of all those people on board that passenger plane, that plane having landed safely. Candy.

CROWLEY: Deborah Feyerick in Romulus, Michigan, thanks so much. More details are also emerging about the suspect, who, as Deborah mentioned, had been a college student in Great Britain. CNN’s Phil Black is outside of the London house where Abdulmutallab lived. And he has that part of the story -- Phil.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Candy, for the second day now, British police have been searching an apartment in the building behind me. This is Mansville (ph) Street, in a wealthy part of central London, and it is where the suspect, Abdulmutallab, lived while studying here in London at London’s University College.

This was between September 2005 and June 2008. British police say they are working very closely with U.S. officials to investigate this British connection, to essentially piece together his life here during those years, to determine to what extent, if any, his time living in this city influenced or impacted upon his decision to carry out this attack. To what extent was he radicalized here, or did he have any contact with extremist elements of London’s Muslim community, which have in the past proved such a rich source for terror plots.

Two facts have emerged. One, it was from the U.S. embassy in London that he obtained the tourist visa that he used to take that flight to Detroit. And we now know that, having completed his studies here and left London, he tried to come back. This was just in May of this year. He applied for a six-month study visa to return to London, but that was rejected on the grounds that the college he claimed to be studying at was a fake. Candy.

CROWLEY: Phil, let me ask you. We were talking here before the show and sort of noting that one of the U.S.’s strongest allies, the strongest ally, Great Britain, seems to have been sort of a hot bed for a number of these suspects that crop up, for radicalization. What is it in the temperature there that seemed to grow some of these terrorists?

BLACK: In recent years, there is no doubt, Candy, that London in particular has proved, as I say, a rich source for home-grown terror plots. There is a strong Muslim community here in various London suburbs, and within those, there have been extremist elements that have plotted both here, travelled abroad to train, and in some cases actually attempted to carry out attacks. We have seen terror strikes on the streets of London. We famously saw the liquid bomber blot that had influenced travel around the world to such a strong degree.

But this is different. This does not fit the regular profile. He is not from one of those neighborhoods where you see those sorts of plots emerging. It will be interesting to see just what the British connection was or to what extent it has influenced his decision to carry out this attack, Candy.

CROWLEY: Phil Black in London, thanks very much, underscoring what we know. We have a lot more questions right now than we have answers.

Now to Nigeria. Christian Purefoy is in Lagos with details on the investigation there. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIAN PUREFOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nigerian airport authorities have now confirmed that Farouk Abdulmutallab boarded a KLM flight from Lagos via Amsterdam to Detroit on the 24th of December. The ticket was bought in Accra, Ghana, and paid for in cash. They say no contact details or telephone number were left during the purchase.

He was seen boarding the flight at about 8:30 local time and spotted carrying a shoulder bag.

During the first leg of the journey, from Lagos to Amsterdam, the suspect was in seat 20b, but later moved to seat 19a from Amsterdam to Detroit.

His father had previously reported him to the American embassy in Nigeria, fearing he was becoming radicalized. However, a security source we have spoken to in the Nigerian Aviation Authority says that no one by the name of Farouk Abdulmutallab was put on the high security list.

Christian Purefoy, CNN, Lagos, Nigeria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: President Obama remains on Christmas vacation in Hawaii, but has been getting frequent briefings on the investigation into that attempted airplane bombing. International airline passengers, as well as those traveling here in the United States, now face even tighter security checkpoints, and the Obama administration is reviewing security measures that are already in place to address the terrorists threat.

Joining us now from San Francisco is homeland security secretary, Janet Napolitano .

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: Secretary Napolitano, thank you so much for joining us. If I am about to get on a plane today in the U.S. or headed toward the U.S., I think my big question is, is this part of a larger plot, or do you think this is a lone wolf?

NAPOLITANO: Well, right now, we have no indication that it’s part of anything larger, but obviously the investigation continues. And we have instituted more screening and what we call mitigation measures at airports. So I would advise you during this heavy holiday season just to arrive a bit early, and to know that we are going to be doing different things at different airports. So don’t expect to do the same thing at one airport when you transfer through to another airport.

But the traveling public -- this is my message for you, Candy. The traveling public is very, very safe in this air environment. And while we continue to investigate the source of this incident, I think the traveling public should be confident in what we are doing now.

CROWLEY: So, just to finish up on the question-- I do want to talk to you about security measures -- but do you think -- has there been any evidence of the Al Qaida ties that this suspect has been claiming?

NAPOLITANO: Right now, that is part of the criminal justice investigation that is ongoing, and I think it would be inappropriate to speculate as to whether or not he has such ties.

What we are focused on is making sure that the air environment remains safe, that people are confident when they travel. And one thing I’d like to point out is that the system worked. Everybody played an important role here. The passengers and crew of the flight took appropriate action. Within literally an hour to 90 minutes of the incident occurring, all 128 flights in the air had been notified to take some special measures in light of what had occurred on the Northwest Airlines flight. We instituted new measures on the ground and at screening areas, both here in the United States and in Europe, where this flight originated.

So the whole process of making sure that we respond properly, correctly and effectively went very smoothly.

CROWLEY: Well, it seems as though the reason this plane did not explode is that the explosion failed and then you had some quick passengers who jumped on him when he lit this fire. So let me ask you about how he could have gotten on the plane, with this substance, the PETN. I mean, we get on, you can’t have more than 3.4 ounces of toothpaste and you can’t have more than 3.4 ounces of anything in a little bag, and so I think people are thinking, so how does he get on with an explosive? How does that get past security?

NAPOLITANO: Well, we are asking the same questions, looking at what happened in Amsterdam as he transferred flights to a flight that was U.S.-bound. We have already been working with the airport and airline authorities there to see what kind of screening, screening equipment was used. We have no suggestion that he was improperly screened, but we want to go through and see. We’re always ...

CROWLEY: I’m sorry, but if he was not improperly screened or properly screened, and yet you want Americans to feel safe on the planes, and so if it was properly screened and he got on anyway with that, it doesn’t feel that safe.

NAPOLITANO: Well, you know, it should. This was one individual literally of thousands that fly and thousands of flights every year. And he was stopped before any damage could be done. And now the forensics are analyzing, well, what actually could have been done with whatever substance he had and whatever amount. Those are all undetermined issues right now. And then we will go back and see about that technology, about that screening, just as we will go back at the president’s request and look at how we put people on different types of watch lists. Those are things that had been in place for many years. They have been the procedures that we have utilized.

And again, once this incident occurred, what I really think deserves attention is everybody responded quickly, effectively, without panicking and shutting down the airline systems or air travel. What we did is dealt with the incident, put out additional security measures both at airports here and abroad, and made sure that the flights that were in the air were indeed safe.

CROWLEY: Let me ask you, because you are right, this was one individual, but that’s really all it takes. If a plane explodes, it just takes one individual. So let me ask you about those watch lists. Here is someone whose father came to the U.S. embassy and said I am worried about his ties, I am worried that he is becoming increasingly militant. He is on a list, but somehow no none looks at him more closely, apparently, than any other passenger. Is there some way -- I mean, it seems to me there is all these computer lists, and this one has suspected ties, and that one -- and this is the no-fly list. Is there not some way to merge this information so that he would have popped up someplace?

NAPOLITANO: Well, there is no suggestion that -- he was on what’s called a tied list, which has half-a-million-plus names on it. And there is no suggestion that that was not shared information. The issue was, was there enough information to move him to the more specific lists, which would require additional examination or indeed being on no-fly status. And to date, it does not appear that there was any such information to move him from that tied list, which was shared and everybody had it, but to a more specific list which would require different types of screening at the airport.

CROWLEY: So not even a father coming in, knowing what his son has been up to and reporting this to the U.S. embassy, is not enough? I mean, what puts you on the watch list if that is not enough?

NAPOLITANO: Well, indeed you can -- let’s not get into that, because for one thing, we need to ascertain exactly who said what to whom and when. But also, you have to understand that you need information that is specific and credible if you are going to actually bar someone from air travel. He was on a general list, which over half a million people, everybody had access to it. But there was not the kind of credible information, in the sense derogatory information, that would move him up the list.

Now, one of the things I think we will be doing over the next weeks is really looking at those watch lists procedures in light of this occurring and saying, OK, do those need to be changed? They have been in place for a number of years. Do they need to be adjusted in light of this event, just as we will look at our screening and screening technology once we know for sure what he had and what he had access to, to see whether any of that needs to be changed.

We are always dealing with a changing environment. But we do it and we do it really very, very quickly and very thoroughly across the entire air environment, through airports both domestically and internationally. And that has happened over this weekend.

CROWLEY: Secretary Napolitano, let me ask you. It seems to me when Richard Reid got on the plane and tried to light his shoe with explosives, we all began to take off our shoes. When some British terrorists began to put substances together, that’s when we got the 3.4. Now we have this man, so an hour before your flight lands, everybody has to have everything off their lap and they can’t use a blanket and they can’t put a pillow there. It feels as though we’re always a little bit behind the curve, we’ve always correcting the last problem. Is there an attempt to kind of look forward and say, OK, what else is missing here when we look at this picture that we -- the little loopholes, if you will, that we can close here?

NAPOLITANO: Oh, absolutely. And that work is ongoing all the time. But we also recognize that it is important that we anticipate that someone could indeed get on a plane with intent to do harm, regardless of everything that we do. And that requires, then, everybody to know what to do when that occurs, which is what happened here, and the ability to immediately get information out to flights that are already in the air, as well as flights that are on the ground. And we exercised that. So we are constantly looking for new technologies, new methodologies and the like, as you suggest. But also, always practicing and exercising what needs to happen in terms of information sharing, not just with airports, airlines, but also with other law enforcement, state and local throughout the country and the like, practice that information sharing, getting products out quickly, smoothly, to make sure that additional measures are shared immediately for the protection of the traveling public.

CROWLEY: In terms of additional measures, was there a U.S. marshal on that flight? We are told there was not. Why not?

NAPOLITANO: We do not have air marshals on all flights. They are assigned on a random basis.

CROWLEY: So it’s not a budget cut thing? There are also reports out there that there were some budget cuts in the U.S. marshal program, and that’s why there was not a U.S. marshal on that plane?

NAPOLITANO: Well, the federal air marshals are part of our system, and indeed we share them, and we share -- they are posted randomly on different flights. And as far as I know, on this flight, there was not one. But that was not the result of budget cuts. That is just the result of the fact that he happened to be on an airplane that did not have one.

CROWLEY: Do you have the resources you need to keep flights in America and to America safe?

NAPOLITANO: Well, we are also looking at that.

CROWLEY: We have lots more questions to ask in the days ahead, but I know we are out of time. Secretary Napolitano, thank you so much for joining us.

END