CQ TODAY PRINT EDITION
March 31, 2008 – 9:06 p.m.
Freshman Democrats Feel Heat on Immigration
By Karoun Demirjian, CQ Staff
MONACA, Pa.— As Rep. Jason Altmire walked into the Beaver County Sportsmens Conservation League Awards Dinner at the Monaca Turners lodge, he was pretty sure that between the handshakes and the backslaps someone might ask him about immigration.
“I hear about it everywhere I go,” the freshman Democrat said of his talks with constituents in western Pennsylvania’s 4th District. “People want to see Congress move a bill.”
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Across the state, fellow Democratic freshman Christopher Carney faces similar concerns from his constituents in the 10th District.
“People say, ‘We don’t want any kind of amnesty,’ ” Carney said. “People want us to control the process. . . . It’s a real concern here.”
When it comes to immigration, constituents like these hold the kind of influence that Washington lobbyists — and perhaps Democratic leaders — only dream of.
Even though they have relatively few foreign-born residents, districts like Pennsylvania’s 4th and 10th are the emerging battlegrounds of immigration, and their representatives are the prime targets of Republican efforts to push get-tough, enforcement-first approaches through the House.
The future of threatened first-term Democrats such as Altmire and Carney may hang in the balance. And Republicans hope that what those lawmakers heard back home during the spring recess improves the chances that some sort of get-tough legislation moves forward this spring.
Competing Pressures
At issue in the House are two GOP-initiated discharge petitions — one to force floor debate and a vote on an enforcement-only measure by Rep. Heath Shuler , D-N.C., and another, expected to be filed Tuesday, on a bill by Rep. Bart Stupak , D-Mich., to increase the number of H-2B visas for seasonal workers.
Each petition must garner 218 signatures to be successful — and each of the bills has enough Democratic cosponsors to theoretically clear the hurdle. But signing those discharge petitions is no small commitment for first-term Democrats, who are being pressured not to break with party leadership while at the same time feeling the need to satisfy constituents — and deflect GOP attacks — by talking tough on immigration.
Carney and eight other Democrats signed the discharge petition on Shuler’s bill before leaving for the two-week recess. Altmire, and the majority of the bill’s Democratic cosponsors, didn’t sign — and challengers have tried to make that an issue.
“They talk a good game and they say they support things, but don’t do anything to make sure anything happens,” said Melissa Hart, who lost her seat in Congress to Altmire in 2006 and is challenging him in 2008. “He’s all talk and no action. He’s trying to have it both ways.”
Hart’s criticism of Altmire directly reflects talking points that were circulated during the recess by the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC) in rural districts represented by first-term Democrats in Pennsylvania, New York and Ohio. Several of those seats — such as the ones held by Kirsten Gillibrand of New York’s 20th District and Zack Space of Ohio’s 18th – have been listed as NRCC targets for 2008.
In each of those areas, a changing economy has heightened concerns about illegal immigration.
“You have immigration serving as a way to talk about two things. One is the economy, and the idea that somehow these immigrants coming into the area would be taking jobs and employment away,” said David Harris, a professor of law at the University of Pittsburgh. “Second, there’s a feeling that there’s a cultural transformation happening, and people begin to get uncomfortable when they see the world changing around them.”
In Aliquippa, a portion of Altmire’s district north of Pittsburgh on the banks of the Ohio River, a summertime roundup of illegal immigrants laying fiber-optic cable for Verizon Inc. brought the immigration debate too close to home for some longtime residents — in an area where less than 2 percent of the population is foreign-born.
“These guys are taking people’s jobs here,” said John DiCioccio, a retired pipe fitter. “It comes down to making money — they can get those guys to work for half-price or a third of the price; they’re going to hire them.”
Lacking Resources
In Sayre, part of Carney’s district just across the border with New York, Police Chief Larry Hurley has staged at least three impromptu raids on undocumented workers in the past three years — unprecedented in a town of fewer than 6,000, he says, and requiring the kind of policing he and his 10 officers don’t have the resources to conduct.
“I see money pouring into the cities, but we’re up against the same type of criminal activity, and we get nothing,” he said. “I try to stay out of politics. But I don’t think I’m the only person in law enforcement in small towns in rural areas having to deal with this trend.”
For constituents like these, discussion of discharge petitions remains a bit too technical a topic for meet-and-greet get-togethers. Because last year’s debate over comprehensive immigration reform took place mostly in the Senate, there’s not much of a House voting record to point to when it comes to immigration, and the competition has been mostly a war of words.
Several of the targeted freshman Democrats already espouse a hard-line stance on immigration, so what has emerged is a game of rhetorical one-upsmanship. Both the incumbent and the challenger try to portray themselves as the champion of ever-tougher border and workplace enforcement.
For incumbents such as Altmire, though, there is an additional challenge: the need at some point to match rhetoric with action. Signing a discharge petition on the Shuler bill might accomplish that, but Altmire has nevertheless decided against it, because he doesn’t trust Republicans— who, as the filers of the petition, would assume control over floor debate on the bill if they discharge it — to be as enforcement-minded as they profess.
“Every time the Republicans have had the chance to deal with the issue, they bring amnesty to the table,” he said. “For me, it’s very simple: I want to see [Shuler’s bill] on the floor, I want to see us address immigration in a way that secures the border. . . . I’ve been clear with my position, and I think the people are happy with where I am.”
Nonetheless, the struggle to be the toughest when it comes to immigration may leave these freshman Democrats in a ticklish position.
Of course, not every constituent has the same concerns.
Keith Eckel, a fourth-generation farmer from Clarks Summit, Pa., and a lifelong conservative Republican, is at odds with his party’s push to harden the bottom line on the debate. Last week, he decided to stop growing the tomatoes that he’s been selling up and down the East Coast since 1949 because Congress has failed to pass comprehensive immigration reform.
“In our business, we’re totally dependent on seasonal farm workers of basically Hispanic descent to harvest our crops,” he said. “I’ve been wrestling with this decision for the past two years, hoping that Congress would move on the immigration reform issue. This year it just became apparent that we were not going to have enough people to harvest the crop.”
Carney, Altmire and their challengers have expressed an interest in legislation on the seasonal H-2B visa shortage as a means of addressing the concerns of farmers and contractors in their districts who rely on immigrant labor.
For employers like these, it’s a short-term, bottom-line problem. But solving it may be a tall order when the only acceptable political options seem to be getting tough or getting tougher.
Comments
You're right. Illegal immigrants take jobs away from citizens and cost our governments incredible amounts of money, which make no mistake affects tax expenditures and your money. Don't feed, lock-up or waste your money. Deport all illegal aliens. Call ICE for pick-up and processing. Call (866) 347-2423. toll free. Defend your nation. Deport criminal squatters.
I guess we do get alittle uncomfortable seeing our country turn into a third world ghetto. Latin America belongs south of the Rio Grande, not camped out in my front yard.
We own a nursery and hire unexperienced people starting at $10 per hour -- we even provide housing for our employees that need it. Every year we put ads all over the area looking for workers. We get no-one. If someone does work for us, they last about two weeks. Most Americans don't seem to want honest, hard labor..... especially young people, and we're out here in farm country! We only hire legal workers, some of whom now make about $40K per year. They are raising their families here and contributing to society. What are we supposed to do? Shut down our 25 year business? Not all immigrant workers are illegal, and not all Americans care about a blue collar, no prestige job.
One more thing -- the immigrant labor, legal or not, (unless they are paid under the table) is paying into our country's Social Security. They will never collect a dime, but are helping prop the system up for us. Maybe one reason the government hasn't had the cojones to deal with this issue is because they like all that money flowing into the SS coffers!
This issue is very explosive, and people tend to look at it thru a lens that gives incomplete information. Jennifer is right, there is an issue of getting workers at the low end of the scale, but also there are cultural changes happening in the US that make people uncomfortable. But no government will ever deport everyone because they know the US economy will collapse. And for those who don't know that, read a little, speaking out of prejudice is not smart thinking.
I,ve worked with a temporary permit since 98, paid well over 106,000 $ and SS & medicare. The company provides health care for my daugter and me. yet when my permit expire I must leave the country .I won't see a dime of the money paid to SS -med.this immigrant like many before me love this country but will be forced to leave . God Bless
It is rank hypocrisy for the Republicans to be pushing so hard on enforcement when they are quite comfortable doing the bidding of the agro-industrial businesses that rely largely on ondocumented farm-workers. See my detailed analysis at http://eristic-ragemail.blogspot.com.
Yawn... What did Hart do when she was in office? Altmire and Carney both signed on to the SAVE Act. If you can attack them for being soft on immigrants then you can attack Tom Tancredo. Personally I think its the wrong approach, but these attacks just show how much the GOP is grasping at straws.
Jennifer Farmers have been able to hire H-2A's for years but did not want to house,feed and be responsible for their medical care instead they placed the burden on TaxPayers. Do you think if the Illegals who are in our country would work for $10.00 an hr. if they were granted Amnesty? NO they would not,they would go after higher paying jobs and displace American workers. Farmers insatiable want for CHEAP labor will never be quenched no matter how many immigrants are allowed to come into our country because they will move on to higher paying jobs so it become an endless quest for more and more 3rd. world cheap labor. Other states are using prison labor and it is a win - win situation.The prisoners make a litte money,it gives them something to do and it helps pay for their incarceration.All states should implement prisoner employement it would solve cheap labor needs for farmers.
Why is there no discussion about putting those who hire illegal aliens in JAIL? That would be too simple... as what were are now witnessing is just the latest form of WHITE America slavery.... flood the market place with cheap labor. Who does that benefit?
Please join the fight for OUR COUNTRY! NumbersUSA.com BetterImmigration.com
Legal Eagle, if you want to make a point, please get your facts straight. Here is some info for you on the H2A program: Employers must place ads and search for employees and show they have had no success before using the program. They must pay wages comparable to those paid to local workers. They must provide housing. They must supply three meals a day, or the facilities and means for the workers to prepare their own. After 50% of the work contract is completed, they must reimburse the worker's transportation costs. At the end of the contract, they must then pay for the worker to move to their next job. Did I mention that there is a cap on the number of workers allowed into the US each year? And that the program is filled almost immediately? Please do not talk to me about cheap labor. Please talk to me about the lack of Americans willing to do the kind of backbreaking labor that farmers need. Are you prepared to double your food budget? I am also tired of painting all immigrant labor with the same brush. Our employees are the hardest working, most decent people I know. Yes the system is broken -- so punish those that are hiring the illegals! But don't interfere with the farmers trying to plant and harvest crops who are doing it correctly and legally, as hard as some government programs make it.
So much misinformation I wouldn't have time to correct it all. H-2A does NOT have a cap. Yep, it's a pain and should be streamlined but farmers, and others, need to be weened off of CHEAP labor. I'm tired of seeing the politics game. The FACT is that republicans shot down the last amnesty attempt that was being pushed by most dem senators, Bush and McCain, but 15 democrat senators crossed over to help defeat it. The "Economy sky will fall" argument is nothing but fear-mongering. In Arizona, Oklahoma and a few other places, illegals ARE leaving because the states are doing the job the federal government won't do. Enforce the damned laws. What's radical, racist or extremist about that?
There are federal laws against the employment of illegals. So anyone who gets caught, doing so, will have an opportunity to tell it to the judge. It doesn't matter how gard illegals work, or how good they are as people. They are illegal, end of the argument. Please don't give us the old song and dance about the SS they pay. It's a drop in the bucket as compared to how much they cost the taxpayers for the free benefits they receive. Breaking the law is breaking the law; they broke it when they crossed the border; they break it with their forged papers; employers are breaking the law by knowingly ignoring the fact that they are employing illegals. Report Employers/Employees Internal Revenue Service (IRS) fraud/criminal investigations number is 1-800-829-0433. suspicious activity?? 1-866 DHS 2ICE. 1-866-347-2523
Per Altmire: ""Signing a discharge petition on the Shuler bill might accomplish that, but Altmire has nevertheless decided against it, because he doesn't trust Republicans--Every time the Republicans have had the chance to deal with the issue, they bring amnesty to the table," he said." I am an Independent. Altmire is a LIAR!!! It is the majority of Dems who ALWAYS try to shove amnesty down our throats!! Some of the Republicans do as well, but it is mainly the Dems!!!! He is trying to make an excuse for himself for NOT signing Heath Shuler's SAVE ACT---a bipartisan bill to enforce our immigration laws, prevent illegals from taking the jobs from US citizens, prevent illegals from getting welfare, WIC, and foodstamps----and to increase Bordre Patrol, to guarantee that the fence is built, to allow police to arrest illegals, etc. For more information about the SAVE ACT, please go to this site: http://www.numbersusa.com No matter if you are a Dem or Rep----PLEASE only support the candidates that GUARANTEE to enforce our immigration laws!!! Illegals are taking jobs and lowering wages in MANY occupations. In areas where there are LARGE numbers of illegals, they are destroying hospitals and schools. They are destroying social benefit systems---welfare, fuel assistance, etc. The illegals are sending $47 billion a year back to their home countries----this is money that could have been spent in our economy!!! Please go to this site--it will show you all candidates who are running for congress, governor, and local races in all states, and their positions in regard to immigration issues!!! If we can get the right candidates itno Congress, it won't matter who gets put into the White House!!!! http://www.betterimmigration.com/candidates/2008/featuredraces.html PLEASE do not vote based on party----please vote based on who is going to make sure that our laws get enforced!!! We are currently in a fight for our country, and the futures of our children and grandchildren. Here is another GREAT site to check out---it will let you know what is going on in cities/states throughout the country in regard to illegal/immigration issues. It is updated twice a day!!! http://www.americanpatrol.com
He needs "immigrant labor" to harvest TOMATOES? Doesn't this guy know that the rest of the US has been using MACHINES to do that for DECADES already? When will people get the connection between CHEAP LABOR and low wages which naturally equals a low STANDARD OF LIVING? America's broad-based prosperity - working people enjoying a "middle-class" lifestyle didn't start in the age of slavery! It started after WW II when technical innovation made every hour of labor more productive! But, El Presidente Jorge Boosh and the Globalists want to turn back the clock and engage in a world-wide Race to the Bottom on wages! They want you to compete with China and Mexico and settle for the scraps that fall from the tables of the wealthy elite! That's what you deserve if you're willing to tolerate black market labor - essentially SCABS on the US labor force!
Jennifer: You need to get your information and facts straight!!! Employers---including the farmers---try to bypass the laws and hire US citizens---so that they can bring in ILLEGALS or foreigners who will work for less money. They know of legal ways to scate around the laws----so that it "appears" as if they tried to hire US citizens, but in "reality", they did NOT!!!
Jennifer: It appears that you are just like the other employers-----you feel that we should reward/accommodate the illegals, so that you and your husband---as well as other employers-----can continue to maximize your profits by hiring illegals----while all of the expenses of the illegls being here are passed onto US citizens/tax payers.
This story is now linked on the #1 website for daily news regarding the invasion of the USA - AmericanPatrol.com.
Jennifer's industry has been using immigrant and illegal immigrant labor to undercut the competition for so long that they've made it impossible to stayin business without cheap labor. Then these businesses, like whining growers and farmers whose costs are now dependent on immigrants, yell fire when the clampdown comes and the law of diminishing returns is spiralling the business into insolvency. Only more cheap labor will keep them afloat. Sorry Jennifer, but he Grim Reaper is coming for your industry and many others responsible for the American Ponzi scheme that we are now feeling the effects of, which include the money-for-nothing subprime meltdown, which was fueled by cheap immigrant laborers, who were, ironically, the mortage business's biggest customers. By the way, you're offering kid jobs to adult immigrants. You think we should allow in millions more whose children cost $10,000 a year to educate and whose public health bill run into the hundreds of billions just because you want to stay in business? These immigrants don't stay in one business, either, so we'd have to kkep the borders open to satisfy Jennifer and every other industry whose survival depends on the influx. You must know by now that you will have to begin making other plans.
Okay -- you win. I don't understand why you can't be civil. On any issue affecting this country, we would be better off thinking and deliberating -- maybe trying to see the other side in order to come to a reasoned opinion. I agree that employers who hire illegals should be punished -- I said that in one of my first posts. I will leave the lot of you to stew in your own hateful juices. Let me make this clear as you continue to vilify me -- our company DOES NOT, and WILL NOT in the future, hire illegals. If anyone would like to be considered for a job at our nursery, we are always looking for help. Please bring all your paperwork so that we can verify it's veracity. (We participate in the electronic verification program.) Also, remember to bring rain gear, as you will be out in some nasty weather. Also sunscreen for those hot, sunny days. There may be heavy lifting involved. We pay weekly, and you can expect a starting wage of $10 per hour if you are inexperienced, and more depending on history. We offer 1 week vacation, and paid holidays. You will of course, receive time and a half overtime. Our season runs from April until November. No takers? That's what I thought...... Most people would rather have some prestige with their jobs.... Hard labor just doesn't cut it for most. One suggestion for all of you so adamantly opposed to immigrant labor -- and many of you seem opposed to legals -- spend a week... a day? at a farm or nursery and see if this is what you want to do with your life, or if you want your kids to do it. No? Then answer this -- who will do it? Who will grow your vegetables? Who will gut and clean your chickens? Who will empty your hospital bedpans?
Jennifer: PLEASE save all of the BS stories and excuses for hiring illegals----SOME of us have been following and active in this issue for a long time----and we have heard them all, and we KNOW that they are nothing but BS!!!-----There are NO jobs that US citizens will not do at a fair and living wage!!-----If you cannot find a US citizen to work for you, it is because you are not looking hard enough!!!!-----Did you try the schools, the Unemployment Office, etc???------Just like the BS from the farmers----In Colorado, some of the farmers there have begun to hire non-violent prisoners and the homeless!!!-----Farmers are currently able to bring in as many LEGAL workers that they need at a pre-established minimum wage, and as long as they pay health care benefits.------However, the farmers don't want to have to pay that minium wage and health care--they would rather continue to hire illegals at slave wages, and pass all other expenses onto US citizens/tax payers!!-------Who do you think did all of this work before we allowed the illegals to invade our country???------If you are going to try to BS and lie to people, you should definitely pick a group of people who are not as knowledgeable regarding this issue!!!!
Geez.......I looked at my posts from last night, there were so many errors, spelling errors, etc.-----Sorry, it was late and I was typing fast!!! The US lets in OVER 2 million people per year LEGALLY---more than any other country in the world!! And, guess where the majority are coming from---MEXICO. GET INVOLVED!!------http://www.numbersusa.com-----http://www.minutemanhq.com------http://www.alipac.us------http://www.americanpatrol.com------http://www.saveourstate.org
Jennifer, if I lived there, I would have my kids working there after school and in the summer. I picked watermelons in Jr High and High school in TX. It was hard, but not as bad as you make it sound. If I had to do it now, I imagine it would feel the way you describe it. But I'm not like most parents willing to let their kids stay home all day, play video games and getting fat. I don't know of any farmers here in AZ advertising.
Sue - I'll address you first -- WE DO NOT NOW OR EVER EMPLOY ILLEGALS. Please do not call me a liar when you do not know me or a single thing about me. Can't we elevate this and make it a conversation instead of a war? The only thing I can figure is that you have some real prejudice issues about Hispanics as a whole. We have advertised in five local and county newspapers. We have advertised in the main Minneapolis/St Paul papers. We have also attended local job fairs (malls and high schools) and put up help wanted signs in local restaurants, stores and gas stations. We go through these steps every year. We pay, once again, $10 per hour to start for the unexperienced. (Some of our workers make $40K per year, which actually is more than I take from the company, and not much less than my husband takes.) We have had a few high school students (farmer's kids) work for us, but they have lasted only a few weeks. Our work can be hard -- in a nursery it is not uncommon to lift 40 lb. pots, over and over for hours. Tree digging season is especially intense, as we must harvest trees from the field, and much of that work is done manually. We harvest at least twice a year. We also have heavy equipment involved -- i.e. skid steer loaders and tractors. It is not pleasant in the 90 degree heat with 90 degree humidity and mosquitoes. It is also not pleasant when it is 40 degrees, blustery and rainy. Once again, Sue and others, if you would like to see what this work entails, we would love to have you come out and give it a go. Obviously, you would not be operating equipment, but there is always hoeing, pruning, and moving those pots. Heck, we'll even put you up so you don't have to get a motel room. (Nearest about 10 miles away.) Let me know how to get in touch with you, and I will give you the details. (You can reach me at pokeynflo@hotmail.com) I'm dead serious about this. And you --James -- don't tell me I'm making it harder than it sounds. Have you ever worked at a nursery? We grow on over 200 acres so there's tons of work. The one thing you are correct about is the kids these days. Parents are too easy on them and give them too much. But if you do think I'm exaggerating about the hard labor, come on out to Minnesota -- the offer's good for you too. We'd be happy to put you to work. Tell me how to get a hold of you, and I'll arrange it for you.
Jennifer: Soooooooo......Now the truth comes out.......Because the work is sometimes difficult and VERY physical, you cannot find someone to work for the slave wages of $10 an hour. -----So, the problem is not that you can't find US citizens to do the work----The problem is that you cannot find US citizens who are willing to do the difficult, VERY physical work for $10 an hour.------So, being that the job does include a LOT of physical labor, it just means that you need to increase your starting hourly wage.------In addition, I would be looking for employees at the high schools, community colleges, unemployment office, etc.
Sue, my first post days ago said that we pay $10 per hour -- it also said that we offer free housing. I also said in my last post that we use job fairs at local malls and schools. Do you not read everything? What' s the minimum wage, Sue???? Quite a bit less than $10, isn't it? What do those who work at McDonald's or Wal-Mart get? People these days do not want to do physical labor. So -- back to my question -- what if I pay you $20 per hour? Would you like to come so that you can understand other people's position? My e-mail is included in an earlier post. Please let me know and I will make arrangements for you.
Here in Nashville the once lucrative job pool has dwindled to a trickle, thanks to the influx of illegals into our state. I worked at a uniform service company for the past 4 years. Back in 2004 about half of all the manufacturing facilities we serviced were employing non-English speaking Latinos (illegal aliens). Nowadays we are seeing about a 90% rate of illegal alien employment at these same places. Ten years ago the Tennessean, our main newspaper, used to have 6 pages of help wanted ads on Sunday. Now it has 2. My son wanted an after school job at a fast food joint last year. They told him it started at $5.50 an hour. In 1995, when I first moved here, I saw signs in the window at this very restaurant offering jobs starting at $8.50 an hour. Back then most fast food workers were either black or white. Today almost all them are broken English speaking (llegal) Latinos. Same can be said for construction. 99% of construction workers are Mexican illegals. Pay averages $10 an hour. I did this same work 20 years ago for between $22.50 and $25 an hour. Most employers know the applicants are illegal aliens, but they accept the forged documents anyway, because they are addicted to this cheap labor like crack.
Jennifer, way to go. You did as good as any I have seen trying to convince the confused and ignorant. They will be bragging on their ignorance for a long time but I remain optimistic that they will one day see your point. If Sue took the time to walk in your shoes as you so gratiously invited her to she will get some education. Running a business is no cakewalk. Not only did the ignorant cupcakes not learn to do their chores but they missed their economic and history classes. They don't want to see you make it in the business world and they think Guest Workers from the south are scum. The U.S. had a labor shortage 100 years ago when mines and mining towns were springing up all over the west. A lot of Irish, Chinese and other imigrants came to do the work nobody else wanted to do. They worked harder than slaves, showing the enthusiasm they had for their work. If you advertise the wage at $20 an hour you will get a lot of turnover. Those people that say "for $20 I can love anything" are always the first to go. A hundred years ago imigrants were hated because they were different, guest workers have the same challenges today. I believe your April 2 comment desribed the H2B program not the H2A. My Guess is that Nursery work is done by H2B and is thus subject to the cap. When Sue McDonnell says uncle she can come work as a mason for me. I will pay her $38 an hour if she can keep up with me. Masonry is easier, I know because I worked on a wholesale farm 22 years ago.
Jennifer....you're a profiteer of illegal immigration ...enough said. You are no better than the illegal aliens themselves demanding what is not theirs to demand and making the rest of the country out to be racists or mean-spirited if we do not agree with your open borders, pro-illegal alein agenda. Jennifer...did you pay for their health insurance when any of your illegal alien workers got sick..or their familes? Did you pay into worker's comp? Did you pay all the appropriate employment related taxes to the state and federal government? Every individual, corporation or organization who hires/harbors/assists/aids illegal aliens is jeopardizing the safety, health and welfare of their own families, their neighbors, their community and their country. Shameful.
To the last comment -- if you read my previous posts, you will see that I have said over and over again that we do not now, have not in the past, WILL NOT hire illegals. Many of our workers have been with us for over a decade. We are set up legally -- we pay more than you can imagine into worker's comp and state and federal taxes. We also offer health care, and pay 50% of the worker's premium.....So please -- before you say anything, make sure you are informed.
Jennifer, Those folks who are antogonizng you have no idea and thus spew out of their backsides. Thanks for your factual contributions. They've never owned an outdoor, labor intensive seasonal business that requires full-time (40+ hours per week) employees. They do not understand that businesses can only charge what the market bares, thus certain occupation can only pay so much and still remain viable. FAIR is a messesd up organization that spews propaganda and misinformed information in order to further their cause.
I was just wondering if the Jennifer critics understand that in some parts of the country less than 1% or the population is unemployed. This means that a significant number of people are working in positions the are not qualified for. When there isn't even any prisoners or drug addicts to make up an available labor pool what do you do to get workers? Take workers from other businesses. Some people believe it isn't right to take workers from a full time job to work seasonal work. This doesn't help the worker and it certainly doesn't help the employers in the area that are subjected to high turnover rates. Those few businesses that are willing to spend their resources to bring in workers to their area are helping the local economy in several ways. My guess is that those who are spouting off don't get out enough,otherwise they would see what is really going on. I noticed also that they are not able to fully comprend what they read. Obviously they have an agenda that will only benefit by keeping there heads in the sand. There is a lot of confusion about these topics and for a while the lack of understanding could help Legalatina with her agenda. When you cannot get a plummer when you need him or tomatoes cost $10 a pound there are going to be a lot of people asking why. If farmers cannot compete with imported produce we will soon be at the mercy of other countries. Doesn't this sound like the problem we are having with oil companys. Fortunately there is nobody in congress willing to do away with the H2A program in hopes that somehow a machine will be invented to pick ripe tomatoes or your lazy fourteen-year old will put his Gameboy down get off his ass and pick some tomatoes. Legalatina, he is not going to do this. Like you he is lazy and would rather run his mouth about things he doesn't know anything about. He also thinks this work is beneath him. Oops, I just slipped to your level. How did it feel for me to be making assumptions about you and your family?
I am always amazed when I read comments on the H2_B program. Remeber the Save Our Small Business Act is asking for a repeat of the past few years; somewhere around 130,000 total. How could that possibly affect anyones rate of pay? The real cost to Americans is the ILLEGAL immingrants ( 10,000,000) The problem in today's economy is that we business owners who participate in the H2B program refuse to hire illegals, but, still compete with businesses who will. I agree that something needs to be done, but using my math 10 million is a bigger number than 130,000. Punish the business that hires the illegals. Do not punish those of us that follow the law. Also as a side note, yesterday, 4 new employees who had been hired using the local employment office did not show up for work. The very reason we got involved in the H2B program 5 years ago.
This board is what's wrong with America. everyones spouting ideals yet no one wants to address reality. Anyone here ever taken an economics class?? Let's say everyone starts paying unskilled laborers $20/hr. Ok, everyone happy now? No because now the supervisor that has some skills wants $30/hr and the manager who has responsibilty wants $40/hr and the director wants $50/hr. You really think people with education and skills will be happy to make the same $ as an uneducated, unskilled laborer? Of course not. In essence all that is accomplished by raising the pay rate for the unskilled is you rasie the payrate for all levels of employment. Sounds good right? Wrong, if everyone makes more, everything costs more (by direct correlation). Now you make twice as much but everything costs twice as much, the net gain is ZERO. What has been accomplished? The problem is not that the pay rate is too low, it's that because of the great prosperity our country has seen, most have developed a great sense of entitlement. I see it everyday, it's not a matter of "well I would do the job if it paid more", it's more like "no way I'm doing that job, it's hard. I'll go to work somewhere easier because that's my entitlement as an American" At least thats what happens in the real world, not the world of misinformation and asinine talk show rants which obviously carry a great deal of weight here. It amazes me a how quickly the uninformed spout an opinion. The scary thing is that as we try to excuse away the sense of entitlement the latest genertations have, it will be the downfall of this country way before illegal aliens are.
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